Post by thread:[EE]: Drilling PCB holes

On Sun, 8 Dec 2002, Dave Muhlert wrote: > An excellent way to drill the holes is to use one of the Dremel or similar > rotary tools and the small drill press mounts that are available for > them. This makes excellent holes which are straight every time. Make sure to use Carbide tipped bits, and make sure the bit it out of the hole before moving the board. Otherwise, this system works great. I can do 100+ holes in a few minutes like this. -- Mitch -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> Make sure to use Carbide tipped bits Absolutely. HSS (high-speed steel) bits are a waste of time with GRP board. Carbide and Cobalt-C2 types are excellent value for money. My "Old Faithful" 1mm is over 5 years old and still cuts like new after thousands of holes. You'd be lucky to get one decent-sized PCB out of HSS -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

At 09:00 AM 1/9/03 +1300, you wrote: > > Make sure to use Carbide tipped bits > >Absolutely. HSS (high-speed steel) bits are a waste of time >with GRP board. Carbide and Cobalt-C2 types are excellent >value for money. My "Old Faithful" 1mm is over 5 years old and >still cuts like new after thousands of holes. You'd be lucky to get >one decent-sized PCB out of HSS If I was a nit-picking jerk I'd mention that the smaller sizes are all *solid* (and usually fine-grained) carbide, not just carbide tipped, but I'm not so I won't. The main consequence is that the body of the drill is rather brittle and has been known to snap off under sideways force. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" spam_OUTspeffTakeThisOuTinterlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On Wed, 8 Jan 2003, Spehro Pefhany wrote: > At 09:00 AM 1/9/03 +1300, you wrote: > > > Make sure to use Carbide tipped bits > > > >Absolutely. HSS (high-speed steel) bits are a waste of time > >with GRP board. Carbide and Cobalt-C2 types are excellent > >value for money. My "Old Faithful" 1mm is over 5 years old and > >still cuts like new after thousands of holes. You'd be lucky to get > >one decent-sized PCB out of HSS > > If I was a nit-picking jerk I'd mention that the smaller sizes > are all *solid* (and usually fine-grained) carbide, not just carbide > tipped, but I'm not so I won't. The main consequence is that the body > of the drill is rather brittle and has been known to snap off under > sideways force. Which is why I originally mentioned to make sure the bit was out of the whole before moving the board. Done did that a few times! -- Mitch -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> If I was a nit-picking jerk I'd mention that the smaller sizes > are all *solid* (and usually fine-grained) carbide, not just > carbide tipped, but I'm not so I won't. Your self-restraint is commendable > The main consequence is that the body of the drill is rather brittle > and has been known to snap off under sideways force I cry like my sister when that happens ;-((( It's a good idea to have as little poking out of the drill chuck as possible -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Also, I don't want to be a nit picking jerk either, but there are at least 2 styles of drills for PCBs, typically these have one shank size so as to fit drill machine spindle collets. One type has a fixed collar that sets the length from the tip of the drill to the collet. This allows a single offset to be used for the Z axis. These are also available w/o the collar/stop. Generally, 1/8" diameter is standard for the shank. Always solid carbide in various grades. Wholesale tool lists these in their 2002 catalog in sizes between # 57 & # 80 without collar, 1/8 shank solid. OAL 1.5"; flute length 5/16"...all between $0.15 & 0.25 US each. Please don't buy 'em all guys....save me some - I'm running low on a few sizes.... BTW, here's my nit-picking, hoping the above tip will protect me from jerk status....A tool bit is one that cuts while stationary, such as in Jinx's lathe. A drill, as it is being commonly called a drill-bit, is not really one, since it turns with the spindle. It's just a twist drill. Anyone who's worked around a machine shop always can recognize rookies because they can be sent to the tool crib for a can of steam, a left-handed wrench, or they will call 'em drill-bits... > > > Make sure to use Carbide tipped bits > > > If I was a nit-picking jerk I'd mention that the smaller sizes > are all *solid* (and usually fine-grained) carbide, not just carbide > tipped, but I'm not so I won't. The main consequence is that the body > of the drill is rather brittle and has been known to snap off under > sideways force. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

At 05:32 PM 1/8/03 -0500, you wrote: >BTW, here's my nit-picking, hoping the above tip will protect me from jerk >status....A tool bit is one that cuts while stationary, such as in Jinx's >lathe. A drill, as it is being commonly called a drill-bit, is not really >one, since it turns with the spindle. It's just a twist drill. Anyone who's >worked around a machine shop always can recognize rookies because they can >be sent to the tool crib for a can of steam, a left-handed wrench, or they >will call 'em drill-bits... What if you like to chuck them in the tailstock of your lathe? ;-) You're right, though, my catalogs just call them "drills" (with whatever other qualifying adjectives such as "parabolic" that are required). Best regards, Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" .....speffKILLspam@spam@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Having just started in making my own boards, I bought some of the 1/8" collet bits at a local surplus store. Using the only drill press I have available to me (a older table top 1/2" chuck unit), I consistantly manage to snap about 7-10 bits on a board. So I bought a few of the non large collet bits for my next board. Question is, how can I chuck them into such a large unit? I think they'll just slip around in the little hole left when the chuck is fully closed. I was thinking about widening the shaft using some tape, but wouldn't that slip? Josh -- A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams Jinx wrote: > > The main consequence is that the body of the drill is rather brittle > > and has been known to snap off under sideways force > > I cry like my sister when that happens ;-((( It's a good idea to have > as little poking out of the drill chuck as possible -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> Having just started in making my own boards, I bought some of the 1/8" > collet bits at a local surplus store. Using the only drill press I have > available to me (a older table top 1/2" chuck unit), I consistantly > manage to snap about 7-10 bits on a board. So I bought a few of the non > large collet bits for my next board. Question is, how can I chuck them > into such a large unit? I think they'll just slip around in the little > hole left when the chuck is fully closed. I was thinking about widening > the shaft using some tape, but wouldn't that slip? No that won't work. The centering of the drill bit is the problem and it'll only get worse if you shim up the chuck for smaller bits. You need a better drill press, then the bits won't break. Something that spins nice and true, you must have too much wobble on that old drill press. Cheers, Bob -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

At 04:23 PM 1/8/03 -0800, you wrote: >You can get small chucks that fit into a larger chuck that can hold very >small drill (bits). >I know in Australia you can get them from dick smith electronics. They are called "micro chucks" here, and offshore made ones cost < $3. Sounds like that is a terrible drill press. Maybe try to find out whether there is runout in the spindle, a bad chuck or something else is loose and fix it. Even a US$75 drill press should not do that. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speffKILLspaminterlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Any idea where to get them locally Spehro? I bought my bits at Active on Queen. I now have access to a better (albeit bigger) press. I haven't made a new board yet to give it a try. Hopefully I can pick up a micro chuck before my next board is ready for drilling. Thanks, Josh -- A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams Spehro Pefhany wrote: > They are called "micro chucks" here, and offshore made ones cost < $3. > > Sounds like that is a terrible drill press. Maybe try to find out > whether there is runout in the spindle, a bad chuck or something else > is loose and fix it. Even a US$75 drill press should not do that. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> Having just started in making my own boards, I bought some > of the 1/8" collet bits at a local surplus store. Using the only > drill press I have available to me (a older table top 1/2" chuck > unit), I consistantly manage to snap about 7-10 bits on a board. I prefer to use a hand drill. It's a 12V 15,000rpm PCB drill, bottom picture http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/joecolquitt/0makepcb.html A stand or drill press doesn't give me enough feedback about bit pressure on the board, to avoid the very problem you're having. On the very rare occassion I do break a bit it's not whilst drilling (eg rolls off the bench - scream, curse, quick, blame someone). The bits I buy (from RS) fit into a 0.7 - 1.00mm collett. I have some 0.6mm with 1/8" shanks that the local PCB mftr sold me for a couple of $$ and they have their own collett, but I don't use those very often, it's mostly 0.8mm and up > Question is, how can I chuck them into such a large unit? I think > they'll just slip around in the little hole left when the chuck is fully > closed. I was thinking about widening the shaft using some tape, > but wouldn't that slip? Get a short length, (about 1/4", just like the little bits that go all over the carpet when you strip wire), of insulation from a piece of wire and slide that over the drill shank. The collett closes on it very well. Some insulation is soft, some hard. Use a hard piece. One of my bits has had that same bit of blue plastic on it forever To use small bits in the drill press (which doesn't close below about 2mm) I have an old cordless drill chuck with a bolt shaft where the gearbox used to attach and put that in the drill press chuck. Not for anything less than 1.5mm bits though. I've (temporarily) added a couple of drill pictures to the PCB page -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

I use the drill bits from Supremetronic, just down the street from Active. They are pretty cheap bits but I've drilled several boards with them with no breaks. TTYL > Any idea where to get them locally Spehro? I bought my bits at Active on > Queen. I now have access to a better (albeit bigger) press. I haven't > made a new board yet to give it a try. Hopefully I can pick up a micro > chuck before my next board is ready for drilling. > > Thanks, > > Josh -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

At 03:11 PM 1/8/03 -0800, William Chops Westfield wrote: > > The main consequence is that the body of the drill is rather brittle > > and has been known to snap off under sideways force > >Also, try not to DROP solid carbide drills onto hard surfaces. One of the counter people at a tool supply house was having a fairly rough day. I was looking at both carbide and HSS 1/4" spiral up-cut router bits and asked how I could tell them apart if I got them mixed up. She said "Just drop them. The ones that break were carbide." (notice the past tense). *I* thought it was funny. dwayne -- Dwayne Reid <.....dwaynerKILLspam.....planet.eon.net> Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA (780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax Celebrating 18 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2002) .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .- `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address. This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

At 07:28 PM 1/8/03 -0600, Josh Koffman wrote: >Having just started in making my own boards, I bought some of the 1/8" >collet bits at a local surplus store. Using the only drill press I have >available to me (a older table top 1/2" chuck unit), I consistantly >manage to snap about 7-10 bits on a board. Buy a cheap Dremel tool. You won't regret it. If you can find one of the old Dremel drill presses, grab it as well. This is the one where the table moves up and down as opposed to the drill motor moving up and down (as the new Dremel drill presses do). There is much less side slop on the old press and you break far fewer bits. I've gotten in excess of 10,000 holes of of a #66 drill bit using such a rig. dwayne -- Dwayne Reid <EraseMEdwaynerspam_OUTTakeThisOuTplanet.eon.net> Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA (780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax Celebrating 18 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2002) .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .- `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address. This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Thanks for the pics Jinx! I have a Dremel MiniMite (miniture battery powered Dremel) that I might try. Would also be easier as I wouldn't have to go to the workshop to drill boards. I have been using .024" bits for half my holes (roughly .6mm) and .040" for the others (roughly 1mm). I agree it's likely press as I seem to snap both sizes with equal ease. I think I might be able to chuck up the smaller shanked drills in the Dremel too. I'll have to give that a try. Thanks! Josh -- A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams Jinx wrote: {Quote hidden}> I prefer to use a hand drill. It's a 12V 15,000rpm PCB drill, bottom > picture http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/joecolquitt/0makepcb.html > > A stand or drill press doesn't give me enough feedback about bit > pressure on the board, to avoid the very problem you're having. On > the very rare occassion I do break a bit it's not whilst drilling (eg > rolls off the bench - scream, curse, quick, blame someone). The bits > I buy (from RS) fit into a 0.7 - 1.00mm collett. I have some 0.6mm > with 1/8" shanks that the local PCB mftr sold me for a couple of $$ > and they have their own collett, but I don't use those very often, it's > mostly 0.8mm and up > > To use small bits in the drill press (which doesn't close below about > 2mm) I have an old cordless drill chuck with a bolt shaft where the > gearbox used to attach and put that in the drill press chuck. Not for > anything less than 1.5mm bits though. I've (temporarily) added a > couple of drill pictures to the PCB page -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Thanks Herbert. They've been sold out of everything but .8mm for awhile, course I've been out of town for a month, so they may have more. If you're ever in a pinch, Atlas Machinery stocks some, but at about $2.40 a drill. I don't remember what kind they are, except they come in the little red plastic cases. They have a nice metal gauge you can use to size the bits too, but it goes for over $20. Josh -- A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams Herbert Graf wrote: > > I use the drill bits from Supremetronic, just down the street from Active. > They are pretty cheap bits but I've drilled several boards with them with no > breaks. TTYL -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

fyi, you can see that drill here: http://www.pic101.com/pcb Rick Dwayne Reid wrote: {Quote hidden}> At 07:28 PM 1/8/03 -0600, Josh Koffman wrote: > >Having just started in making my own boards, I bought some of the 1/8" > >collet bits at a local surplus store. Using the only drill press I have > >available to me (a older table top 1/2" chuck unit), I consistantly > >manage to snap about 7-10 bits on a board. > > Buy a cheap Dremel tool. You won't regret it. If you can find one of the > old Dremel drill presses, grab it as well. This is the one where the table > moves up and down as opposed to the drill motor moving up and down (as the > new Dremel drill presses do). There is much less side slop on the old > press and you break far fewer bits. > > I've gotten in excess of 10,000 holes of of a #66 drill bit using such a rig. > > dwayne > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On Wed, 8 Jan 2003, Dwayne Reid wrote: > Buy a cheap Dremel tool. You won't regret it. If you can find one of the > old Dremel drill presses, grab it as well. This is the one where the table > moves up and down as opposed to the drill motor moving up and down (as the > new Dremel drill presses do). There is much less side slop on the old > press and you break far fewer bits. I believe I've seen the drill presses on clearance for about $25 at Lowe's (a home hardware store in parts of US). I believe they're the one where the drill moves; I've never seen the one where the table moves. I really love mine 'cause it provides just the right amount of force feedback when drilling; you can drill a hole with just a small flip of the wrist. Makes drilling very fast, too. -- Mitch -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Try http://www.kepro.com Also linked here: http://www.pic101.com/pcb Rick "Mitchell D. Miller" wrote: > So, where is a good place (USA) to purchase Carbide bits? Seems like I've > seem used ones from GatewayElex.com (or close) at one time, but where > could I get good new bits. Also, what would be a good set of sizes to > get? > > -- Mitch > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

At 08:27 PM 1/8/2003, you wrote: >So, where is a good place (USA) to purchase Carbide bits? Seems like I've >seem used ones from GatewayElex.com (or close) at one time, but where >could I get good new bits. Also, what would be a good set of sizes to >get? > >-- Mitch As Chris mentioned earlier, wholesale tools has some really good prices on carbide drills. .15 cents a piece for tens is real good. You may have to patch this url to get it to work. server1.wttool.com/cgi-bin/miva?Merchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=CTGY&Sto re_Code=WT&Category_Code=92000217p The selection is somewhat limited and none of the sizes are what I'd call perfect. The 57 and and the 69 would probably cover most of your projects. 65 would probably be the best overall size, covering about 85% of the through hole parts. lee valley has a nice assortment of re-sharpened drills and routers. I've seen better prices at hamfests, but this is still pretty good. www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?SID=&ccurrency=2&page=31007&categor www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?SID=&ccurrency=2&page=31007&category= 1,130,43409 regards, -carl -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

At 08:36 PM 1/8/03 -0600, you wrote: >Any idea where to get them locally Spehro? I bought my bits at Active on >Queen. I now have access to a better (albeit bigger) press. I haven't >made a new board yet to give it a try. Hopefully I can pick up a micro >chuck before my next board is ready for drilling. Sure. KBC Tools http://www.kbctools.com P/N 1-397-060 They have a place on Kennedy Road in Mississauga (as well as 6 US locations) 1-905-564-6600 Call before going out there, they often have to get stuff in from their Windsor or Detroit warehouses, which takes a day or two. Be sure to pick up a free catalog. You could also try Atlas on Queen W. downtown, just over from Active (past CityTV) (good for measuring tools), say hi to Robin. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speffspam_OUTinterlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Mitch, Don't know a really good place to buy them, I have a friend that gives them to me by the 20 pounds of them. So I have lots to last for a long time. The sizes that I use the most are between a #54 and #66 and the ones in between. The #64, #65 and #66 get the heaviest use. The others are primarily used for power connectors, fuse holders and other hardware with larger hole diameters. I use them in a Dremel (I have several) in drill stands. I purchased chucks for them, much better than collets. The only times I break a bit is when I get a little careless and move something while drilling or ram something into the drill. Good luck in finding a source. Sometimes Harbor Freight Tools has a package of 25 in assorted sizes for about $12.00. Vern, Sound Research, http://www.foothill.net/~soundres "Mitchell D. Miller" wrote: {Quote hidden}> > So, where is a good place (USA) to purchase Carbide bits? Seems like I've > seem used ones from GatewayElex.com (or close) at one time, but where > could I get good new bits. Also, what would be a good set of sizes to > get? > > -- Mitch > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics > (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Spehro Pefhany wrote: > > At 04:23 PM 1/8/03 -0800, you wrote: > >You can get small chucks that fit into a larger chuck that can hold very > >small drill (bits). > They are called "micro chucks" here, and offshore made ones cost < $3. Chucks are not great for tiny bits. If you buy a little 12v "super rotary tool" etc for about $12 USD they have a tiny collet chuck and a variety of collets. One grub screw and the collet chuck removes and you just stick it in your drill press. For your $12 you also get some cutting bits and a few PCB drill bits. :o) -Roman -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.