Post by thread:[EE]: Eagle HELP! URGENT!

Hi I did a schematic then I look a the board how it looks in the board windows, I add some wires to see if I can solve a problem that the auto route can't solve. now I want to erase the wires that i add and I can't! it says to erase it in the schematic but I see it only in the board window. What can I do? Regards Tal "I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." Thomas Edison -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

> I did a schematic then I look a the board how it looks in the > board windows, > I add some wires to see if I can solve a problem that the > auto route can't > solve. now I want to erase the wires that i add and I can't! > it says to > erase it in the schematic but I see it only in the board window. All eagle newbies run into this. Somehow Cadsoft decided that removing a trace on the PCB is done with the 'ripup' command (right next to the route command). Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

> I did a schematic then I look a the board how it looks in the board windows, > I add some wires to see if I can solve a problem that the auto route can't > solve. now I want to erase the wires that i add and I can't! it says to > erase it in the schematic but I see it only in the board window. > > What can I do? You don't want the delete tool, you want to use the "ripup" tool from the board view. This doesn't delete the schematic connection, but rather just the routed wire. I hope this helps. -- D. Jay Newman ! spam_OUTjayTakeThisOuTsprucegrove.com ! Xander: Giles, don't make cave-slayer unhappy. http://enerd.ws/robots/ ! -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

> Wouter & D. Jay Newman > > Sorry guys, the answer is not what you said. > It's a bug or other problem. or maybe an illegal command that I am doing, > that's work one way only. > There is no way to erase it or even see it in schematic. > Odd.. Tal: Unless you are describing something quite different than what I am understanding, then the "ripup" command is what you want. The nets on the schematic view do not directly correspond to the wires in the board view. If you've used autorouting, you use "ripup" to remove one or more physical routes (you should use the "route" command to lay down a trace in the board view). I use the GUI tools to do it (click on the "ripup" tool and then on the route I want to ripup). -- D. Jay Newman ! .....jayKILLspam@spam@sprucegrove.com ! Xander: Giles, don't make cave-slayer unhappy. http://enerd.ws/robots/ ! -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

> > Sorry guys, the answer is not what you said. > > It's a bug or other problem. or maybe an illegal command that I am >doing, > > that's work one way only. > > There is no way to erase it or even see it in schematic. > > Odd.. Sometimes an unrouted wire will not go away by itself. Click the ratsnest button next to the auto button. Colin _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/photos&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

Ok, I'll explain again: I draw a schematic. I ran auto route (bottom only) the result was ok for me. now I wire some wires on TOP layer and connect between the auto route wires (2 separate net$) (bottom) with *TOP* wires that are NOT exist in the schematic (reason: the auto can't handle it) for each wire the eagle ask to which net$ to connect the "manual" wire I respond and continue to connect the other "manual" wires. then I did a rip up cause I want to change one part place and as a result the "manual" wires cannot be erased. I thought the program will add them to the schematic but it didn't, it becomes the same net$ as I choose when create it. mean while I found that if I erase the WHOLE net$ in the schematic the problem is solved, but I have to redraw the original net$ again :-( Any ideas? Tal {Original Message removed}

> Ok, I'll explain again: > > I draw a schematic. > I ran auto route (bottom only) > the result was ok for me. > now I wire some wires on TOP layer and connect between the auto route wires > (2 separate net$) (bottom) with *TOP* wires that are NOT exist in the > schematic (reason: the auto can't handle it) for each wire the eagle ask to > which net$ to connect the "manual" wire I respond and continue to connect > the other "manual" wires. Do you use the "route" command, or the "wire" command? > then I did a rip up cause I want to change one part place and as a result > the "manual" wires cannot be erased. Then the "wires" aren't connected correctly. > I thought the program will add them to the schematic but it didn't, it > becomes the same net$ as I choose when create it. > mean while I found that if I erase the WHOLE net$ in the schematic the > problem is solved, but I have to redraw the original net$ again :-( My guess is that you used the "wire" command rather than the "route" command. One thing to remember is that the routes on the board only correspond electrically to nets on the schematic. I use the "route" command to connect two places on the board that are already connected by the schematic. I use the "ripup" command on the board to remove my own routes (or auto- routed routes that I don't like). -- D. Jay Newman ! jayKILLspamsprucegrove.com ! Xander: Giles, don't make cave-slayer unhappy. http://enerd.ws/robots/ ! -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

On Saturday, Dec 13, 2003, at 15:57 US/Pacific, Tal wrote: > now I wire some wires on TOP layer and connect between the auto route > wires > (2 separate net$) (bottom) with *TOP* wires that are NOT exist in the > schematic (reason: the auto can't handle it) for each wire the eagle > ask to > which net$ to connect the "manual" wire I respond and continue to > connect > the other "manual" wires. So I think you have let your board and your schematic become "inconsistent", which is a pretty bad thing in eagle. Probably the easiest way to fix this is to go back the to schematic and run the ERC (rule check.) It will complain about the problems. Then add the wires manually to the schematic (that you already added to the board) and re-run the ERC until it no longer complains about any inconsistencies. Eagle is pretty insistent that "nets" (NOT wires) be added in the schematic only unless you are making a bare board. The board has airwires and routing for random connections, but the schematic needs to have the lines placed manually and would quickly become an awful mess if eagle tried to do it automatically. Not being able to route some signals is a lousy reason for not putting those signals in the schematic... If you want to control which layer a signal will be routed on as you are drawing the schematics, you can probably use some variation of "class." I don't remember whether the autorouter will route one class at a time, but it DOES route thicker traces first, so if you make the bottom class slightly thinner than the top class, route only the top (the thick traces will route first), and then route only the bottom to pick up the rest. BillW -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

> There is no way to erase it or even see it in schematic. I re-read your post: are you sure you have drawn a WIRE on the PCB? When I do that I can delete it (X-button). For a trace (route command) you must use ripup. Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> The problem is when I draw a wire between to nets eagle ask > me to what net > add the new wire, it become the same net as I select it. later, I cant > delete it but can only delete the *whole* net. I must admit: after my first month with eagle I never attempted eagle-incompatible things like drawing a wire on the PCB. Hearing your experiences I will keep it that way :) Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Tal wrote: > The problem is when I draw a wire between to nets eagle ask me to > what net add the new wire, it become the same net as I select it. So don't do that. Such topological changes to the circuit should only be done in the schematic editor, not the board editor. > later, I cant delete it but can only delete the *whole* net. Of course, because there is only one net now that you connected them. Again, if you want to connect two nets use the NET command in the schematic editor. If you want to break a net into two nets, you can then delete individual connections in the schematic. Otherwise, how to you expect your schematic to stay in sync with the board? ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Wouter & olin despair bring ppl to do some funny things :-) the auto route is so limited! (in my opinion) I can't understand sometimes the logic behind it. a very simple routing is made so clumsy by eagle that sometime like in my case I need to do some manual routing. but I will use your suggestions and see if it work for me. Thanks to all of you Tal {Original Message removed}

> Wouter & olin > > despair bring ppl to do some funny things :-) > the auto route is so limited! (in my opinion) I can't understand sometimes > the logic behind it. a very simple routing is made so clumsy by eagle that > sometime like in my case I need to do some manual routing. In this case (such as a board I just made), I used autorouting, saw the places it didn't work, then I did a ripup on *everything* and manually routed (using the "route" gui command, *not* the wire command) the things I thought could be better routed. Then I autorouted things. Yes, I probably could have done better if I did the entire thing manually, but I don't have that much time on my hands. :) -- D. Jay Newman ! .....jayKILLspam.....sprucegrove.com ! Xander: Giles, don't make cave-slayer unhappy. http://enerd.ws/robots/ ! -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> I must admit: after my first month with eagle I never attempted > eagle-incompatible things like drawing a wire on the PCB. Hearing your > experiences I will keep it that way :) > > Wouter van Ooijen I think that the biggest mistake that users make with Eagle is assuming that it is like anything else on a Windows (or other platform) machine. -- D. Jay Newman ! EraseMEjayspam_OUTTakeThisOuTsprucegrove.com ! Xander: Giles, don't make cave-slayer unhappy. http://enerd.ws/robots/ ! -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> sometime like in my case I need to do some manual routing. I use manual routing only. Use the route command, not the wire command! Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Tal wrote: > despair bring ppl to do some funny things :-) > the auto route is so limited! (in my opinion) I can't understand > sometimes the logic behind it. I've actually been quite impressed with the Eagle autorouter. You do have to take the trouble to read the manual, and then tweak things to suite your case. > a very simple routing is made so > clumsy by eagle that sometime like in my case I need to do some > manual routing. I 100% autoroute most boards. But, this is not a fire and forget process. I commonly do a dozen passes with various teaks in between. For the early tries, I use none or a small number of optimization passes. For the final route, I usually use 8 optimization passes with the various costs carefully selected per pass to get the result I'm looking for. Of course there are cases where manual routing is the only option, particularly for high impedence analog signals. > but I will use your suggestions and see if it work for me. You seem to be confused between routing and making connections between nets. Connections (nets) are defined in the schematic. Routing is the process of placing copper tracks to realize a net, done with the board editor. Routing only implements the connections that have already been defined in the schematic. You should not try to define different connections in the board editor. You really should read the manual. This is all explained quite well. ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

D. Jay Newman wrote: > In this case (such as a board I just made), I used autorouting, saw > the places it didn't work, then I did a ripup on *everything* and > manually routed (using the "route" gui command, *not* the wire > command) the things > I thought could be better routed. Then I autorouted things. That's a reasonable approach. I do enough boards that I've spent the time to set up a few different autorouter settings for various board configurations. Now I can use 100% autorouting most of the time if the board doesn't have any particularly sensitive signals. For example, I've got starting points for two sided thru hole board with pseudo ground plane on top, two sided thru hole board with no ground plane, top layer only surface mount board, etc. ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

D. Jay Newman wrote: > I think that the biggest mistake that users make with Eagle is > assuming that it is like anything else on a Windows (or other > platform) machine. -- Yeah, it does have some annoying command names. CUT does a copy, and copy never seems to be useful. You draw lines with the WIRE command, except when they are wires, then you use the NET command. ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.