Post by thread:[EE]: How robust is a HDD?

Has anybody had any experience with the SMPS on their PC exploding? This has happened to me and it seems to have fried most of the PC. The most valuable/least easily replacable part of the system is my hard-drive. Although I've kept back-ups of most of the important data, it would be nice to think I could rescue my existing drive. Three questions 1. What damage would a massive spike (such as that caused by a SMPS going bang) do to a HDD? Dead controller board, dead drive platters or both? 2. If it's just the controller board that has gone, then could I swap it with a known working board form an identical HDD? 3. Anyone got a spare working Fujitsu MPE3084 that they would part with? Alan Embedded Systems Engineer Microtima Ltd Ouseburn Mews 3-7 Stepney Bank Newcastle upon Tyne NE1 2PW Tel: 0191 2304411 Fax: 0191 2304422 -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

1) A massive spike can easily travel from the disk head to the platter itself. Or it could 'disorganise' the controller so it decides to park wherever it is. Controller is dead for sure, disk is alive if you were lucky... 2) If the platters and heads are still alive, you can replace the controller from an identical drive. And identical is _exactly_ identical. I don't know how big/new the drive is, but 2nd hand shopping would be best. Depends on where you are located, I know a few sites, but it's mostly dutch people there... 3) Nope... All I can give you is my blessing... Last resort would be a professional data recovery company. Think big $$$ here. You can have a brand new big drive array for the same price probably, but it all depends on what you've lost and how badly you want it back. Good luck, Claudio -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- 1. What damage would a massive spike (such as that caused by a SMPS going bang) do to a HDD? Dead controller board, dead drive platters or both? 2. If it's just the controller board that has gone, then could I swap it with a known working board form an identical HDD? 3. Anyone got a spare working Fujitsu MPE3084 that they would part with? Alan -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

At 02:50 PM 1/22/03 +0000, you wrote: >Has anybody had any experience with the SMPS on their PC exploding? > >This has happened to me and it seems to have fried most of the PC. > >The most valuable/least easily replacable part of the system is my hard-drive. >Although I've kept back-ups of most of the important data, it would be nice to >think I could rescue my >existing drive. > >Three questions > >1. What damage would a massive spike (such as that caused by a SMPS going >bang) >do to a HDD? > Dead controller board, dead drive platters or both? Probably dead controller board, *but* there's a chip right in by the heads on some drives AFAUI, and if that's gone.. >2. If it's just the controller board that has gone, then could I swap it >with a >known working board form an identical HDD? That's one of the procedures that the pros use. Personally, fixing HDDs isn't my business, so when this happened to me, I went to a professional data recovery outfit, shelled out the bucks (about $800) and they both recovered the data and put it on a new HDD, and I was off and running. I knew it was confined to the controller board (a chip self-destructed on 6 month old Maxtor, very strange), but when I calculated the time and risk, using the pros was a no-brainer. The outfit I use doesn't charge if they don't recover data at the Level I service (cheap). At higher levels (which I would not have used as I had 99.9% of the data backed up properly) they figure the chances are poorer and they charge for their time. These guys wear white smocks like doctors, and I trust them about as much (maybe more). Best regards, Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" spam_OUTspeffTakeThisOuTinterlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

At 03:56 PM 1/22/03 +0100, you wrote: >Last resort would be a professional data recovery company. Think big $$$ >here. You can have a brand new big drive array for the same price probably, >but it all depends on what you've lost and how badly you want it back. Yup. You can't think in terms of the cost of a new $100 US drive, but rather in terms of the hours of time they will save you, and what that is worth to you. I'm getting a new machine with DVD writer today that should make backups even easier. ;-) Best regards, Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" .....speffKILLspam@spam@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

On Wed, 2003-01-22 at 15:58, Spehro Pefhany wrote: > At 02:50 PM 1/22/03 +0000, you wrote: > >Has anybody had any experience with the SMPS on their PC exploding? > > > >This has happened to me and it seems to have fried most of the PC. > > > >The most valuable/least easily replacable part of the system is my hard-drive. > >Although I've kept back-ups of most of the important data, it would be nice to > >think I could rescue my > >existing drive. > > > >Three questions > > > >1. What damage would a massive spike (such as that caused by a SMPS going > >bang) > >do to a HDD? > > Dead controller board, dead drive platters or both? You can try to plug the disk on another (scratch monkey) computer. if it doesn't blow... you're in luck. otherwise, after trying the swap-the-controller-board trick, the only remaining solution is to send it to ppl like OnTrack that will save the data for (a large heap of) gold^Wmoney... beware though that this company is partly owned by NSA goons. Sincerely Amaury > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: > [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

While I've dealt with a lot of SMPS failures in PCs, only two have damaged more than the powersupply itself, and neither of them damaged the HD to the point of non-usability. I still replaced the HDs, but I was able to copy them completely after the smps failed. At any rate... I'm assuming you've already hooked the HD to another system to verify that it doesn't operate. If not, go ahead and do that. Chances are good it's just fine. If not, then you can replace the controller board with another one, but be advised that a HD can go through several revisions in the same part number. It's usually important to make sure the revisions are the same, especially the circuit board revisions. If the data is really important to you there are companies which will do this for you. They usually have hundreds of controller boards for different hard drives, and if one matches and works then they usually only charge about $500 to move the data to CDs or other media. If it doesn't work, they can (for a much larger fee) use a clean room to dissassemble the drive and try reading the data directly from the platters. -Adam Alan Gorham wrote: {Quote hidden}>Has anybody had any experience with the SMPS on their PC exploding? > >This has happened to me and it seems to have fried most of the PC. > >The most valuable/least easily replacable part of the system is my hard-drive. >Although I've kept back-ups of most of the important data, it would be nice to >think I could rescue my >existing drive. > >Three questions > >1. What damage would a massive spike (such as that caused by a SMPS going bang) >do to a HDD? > Dead controller board, dead drive platters or both? > >2. If it's just the controller board that has gone, then could I swap it with a >known working board form an identical HDD? > >3. Anyone got a spare working Fujitsu MPE3084 that they would part with? > >Alan >Embedded Systems Engineer >Microtima Ltd >Ouseburn Mews >3-7 Stepney Bank >Newcastle upon Tyne >NE1 2PW > >Tel: 0191 2304411 >Fax: 0191 2304422 > >-- >http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: >[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads > > > > > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

{Quote hidden}> -----Original Message----- > From: Alan Gorham [SMTP:alanKILLspamMICROTIMA.CO.UK] > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 2:51 PM > To: .....PICLISTKILLspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: [EE]: How robust is a HDD? > > Has anybody had any experience with the SMPS on their PC exploding? > > This has happened to me and it seems to have fried most of the PC. > > The most valuable/least easily replacable part of the system is my > hard-drive. > Although I've kept back-ups of most of the important data, it would be > nice to > think I could rescue my > existing drive. > > Three questions > > 1. What damage would a massive spike (such as that caused by a SMPS going > bang) > do to a HDD? > Dead controller board, dead drive platters or both? > > 2. If it's just the controller board that has gone, then could I swap it > with a > known working board form an identical HDD? > > 3. Anyone got a spare working Fujitsu MPE3084 that they would part with? > It would be very unlikely that the platters/heads are damaged (but possible). I've successfully replaced a dead controller board from another hard drive to retrieve some data with no problems at all. Unfortuanetly I don't have an MPE3084, but I do have a slightly sick MPE3102 which is the 10GB version. It seems to work but fails the Fujitsu diagnostic tests. If you want to give it a go you are welcome to it, but I don't know if it would work on a smaller drive. If you value your data I'd suggest not using a Fujitsu drive ever again. They make the early IBM 7200 RPM drives look good in reliability terms! Mike -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

Thanks for all your responses - you have confirmed my worst fears! Adam - yes, the first thing I did was to plug the HD into another PC. The bios check showed it's parameters (size etc) to be zero. Also, the HD could not be auto-detected at start-up. I repeated this test on several other PC's so it really does look like the HD is gone! Claudio - I've done an extensive search on the net for an identical drive. My drive was just short of three years old and I didn't come up with too many leads..... The only place I found was computergeeks.com and by the time I got around to ordering, they had none left. If you have any links I have no problems with ordering from Europe! I figured that the combined hoarding power of the list might be a good last resort :-) Spehro, Kyrre, Amaury and all who suggested a professional data recovery service - yes this is probably what I will have to do, but I figured if I could get an identical drive cheaply then it would not be a huge waste of my time to try and swap controller boards. Mike - thanks for both the offer and the advice! I'll mail you offlist about it. Thanks Alan -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

Re: HDD disaster. I have had drives recovered, but it is very expensive. There are still two tricks you might try. i cannot recommend these!, however they have worked for me in the past. 1)take a small screwdriver by the tip and using the handle tap twice,gently right in the center of the drives circular central bump. this may unstick the heads. 2) take the drive, wrap it in foil, and place it in a plastic bag, squeezing out as much air as possible, and seal the bag. Place the bag in your freezer for no more than 15 minutes, then remove it from the bag and install it into a known good computer with the jumpers set as slave, and try to boot. I don't even know why this one works, but it saved a drive that i thought was gone after a 22oV spike sliced through my mobo, psu, mov's and pretty much everything else. I was able to copy off the data before the drive made a loud clicking noise and expired , permanently. I think these are warranty killers, but both have worked. follow these bits of advice at your own risk.They might not work, but they will definitely cost less than a recovery service. Martin -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

Hi Wagner >By exploding you mean a SMPS capacitor just ruptured? >There is no other thing in there to "explode". >A ruptured capacitor will definitely drop the voltage its output voltage, >so no further problem could be done, the power supply itself will shutdown >due lack of "power good return line" from the motherboard. > Yes, post mortem revealed a totally ruptured capacitor. This explosion occured right after I pressed the ON button and believe me, the power supply did not shut down. It kept going, but the PC did not boot. I had to replace the motherboard, CD-ROM and CD-RW drives plus the power supply. I agree with what you say about the data back-up process, but do all PC users *really* have to always be ready for exploding power supplies? Alan -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

At 06:06 PM 1/22/03 +0000, you wrote: >Sorry I don't have any suggestions, but this thread has made me double >check my Back-up routine....I >dupe all the data files from each of my two machines to its partner over >the Lan each night. Tempted >now to put in a second HDD in each machine and set it to cross copy each >every third night. That's what I have now. It works well. That way if one machine blows up or you come into the room the next day and find cut cables and a dust shadow where the box used to be, you've got some recourse. I also have CD-ROMs off-site for the irreplaceable stuff, so even if there was a complete loss (fire, say), the data would live on. Looking forward to having 4.7G per disk, though. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" EraseMEspeffspam_OUTTakeThisOuTinterlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

You ought to read the specifications for the ATX powersupply by Intel. Not only are there specific design rules you have to follow, you also have to limit the failure modes so that it fails safe (no damage to the computer) and makes no noise or noticable smoke when it does fail. Sadly, these are specifications, and not regulations. There was a recent article on powersupplies by one of the tech hardware websites that tested 10-15 powersupplies to their rated limits. IIRC, only two supplies actually supplied the full 300W or 400W that they were rated to, all others failed with only a percentage of the rated load, some rather spectacularily. -Adam Alan Gorham wrote: {Quote hidden}>I agree with what you say about the data back-up process, but do all PC users >*really* have to always be ready for exploding power supplies? > >Alan > >-- >http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: >[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads > > > > > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

Unfortunately, you have to. One of the things you can do, especially if you have it in a non-computer friendly environment (living room, rubble shack, hobby quarter) is to open it up once every two/three months and vacuum the fan area's out. Claudio -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- I agree with what you say about the data back-up process, but do all PC users *really* have to always be ready for exploding power supplies? Alan -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Stuart Meier wrote: *>Sorry I don't have any suggestions, but this thread has made me double *>check my Back-up routine....I dupe all the data files from each of my *>two machines to its partner over the Lan each night. Tempted now to put *>in a second HDD in each machine and set it to cross copy each every *>third night. I once took to putting a second drive into the computer to make backups (I am not afraid of spikes, I run through a UPS). This worked fine, until some sunny day one of the drives failed. It was the backup drive and it failed when I had just deleted some things to make room, knowing they were backed up. Whatever you do, wherever you go, Murphy is watching you. Peter -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

{Quote hidden}> -----Original Message----- > From: Peter L. Peres [SMTP:plpspam_OUTACTCOM.CO.IL] > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:32 PM > To: @spam@PICLISTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: Re: [EE]: How robust is a HDD? > > On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Stuart Meier wrote: > > *>Sorry I don't have any suggestions, but this thread has made me double > *>check my Back-up routine....I dupe all the data files from each of my > *>two machines to its partner over the Lan each night. Tempted now to put > *>in a second HDD in each machine and set it to cross copy each every > *>third night. > > I once took to putting a second drive into the computer to make backups (I > am not afraid of spikes, I run through a UPS). This worked fine, until > some sunny day one of the drives failed. It was the backup drive and it > failed when I had just deleted some things to make room, knowing they were > backed up. Whatever you do, wherever you go, Murphy is watching you. > > Peter > As soon as you delete one copy, you no longer have a backup! Mike -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.