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'[EE]: How to measure power going to a solenoid?'
2002\04\08@075929 by Edson Brusque

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flavicon
face
Hello,

   I'm working on a device that uses a solenoid to spurt a little bit of
liquid from a recipient with a nose (jet). This is working very well, but I
would like to implement a way to the PIC to know if the tip is obstruct.

   The solenoid is 24V and is fired for about 25ms with a darlington par
with a BC548C and a TIP41C. I think that when the tip is obstructed, the
inrush current to the solenoid is a bit higher than otherwise. If so, I can
make something like an integrator to measure the total power (uW/h?) that
was sent to the solenoid and know if the tip is blocked or even partially
blocked.

   Someone have used something similar? Would it work? Actually I don't
have instrumentation to measure solenoid current to know if I'm right.

   Thanks,

   Brusque

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Edson Brusque                 C.I.Tronics Lighting Designers Ltda
Researcher and Developer               Blumenau  -  SC  -  Brazil
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2002\04\08@093153 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
>     I'm working on a device that uses a solenoid to spurt a little bit of
> liquid from a recipient with a nose (jet). This is working very well, but
I
> would like to implement a way to the PIC to know if the tip is obstruct.
>
>     The solenoid is 24V and is fired for about 25ms with a darlington par
> with a BC548C and a TIP41C. I think that when the tip is obstructed, the
> inrush current to the solenoid is a bit higher than otherwise. If so, I
can
> make something like an integrator to measure the total power (uW/h?) that
> was sent to the solenoid and know if the tip is blocked or even partially
> blocked.
>
>     Someone have used something similar? Would it work? Actually I don't
> have instrumentation to measure solenoid current to know if I'm right.

Theoretically your method is correct.  The total energy delivered to the
solenoid will differ whether the solenoind moved or not.  However, the
difference may be a small percentage or the overal, so you will need good
signal to noise ratio.


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2002\04\08@155533 by hschiretz

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-------Phoenix-Boundary-07081998-
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable

Hi Edson Brusque, you wrote on 4/8/02 9:56:48 PM:

{Quote hidden}

don't
{Quote hidden}

Sounds to me like your building or Modifying a Fog Machine and applying
a remote sensing feature to it to ascertain whether the heat exchanger
tip is blocked =3F

If so, a liqid flow meter might be an alternative ...


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2002\04\08@161614 by hard Prosser

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As a suggestion - it may be more worthwhile to look at the peak input
current. The inductance of a soleniod
increases as it closes so if it doesn't close fully the peak current is
likely to be significantly higher while the initial current will be much
the same.
Can you connect a small resistor in series with it and scope it to check
the effects?
Richard P




Hello,

   I'm working on a device that uses a solenoid to spurt a little bit of
liquid from a recipient with a nose (jet). This is working very well, but I
would like to implement a way to the PIC to know if the tip is obstruct.

   The solenoid is 24V and is fired for about 25ms with a darlington par
with a BC548C and a TIP41C. I think that when the tip is obstructed, the
inrush current to the solenoid is a bit higher than otherwise. If so, I can
make something like an integrator to measure the total power (uW/h?) that
was sent to the solenoid and know if the tip is blocked or even partially
blocked.

   Someone have used something similar? Would it work? Actually I don't
have instrumentation to measure solenoid current to know if I'm right.

   Thanks,

   Brusque

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Edson Brusque                 C.I.Tronics Lighting Designers Ltda
Researcher and Developer               Blumenau  -  SC  -  Brazil
Say NO to HTML mail                          http://www.citronics.com.br
-----------------------------------------------------------------

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2002\04\09@151655 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
The current in the solenoid is exactly the same whether it moves or not,
but its slope is not, because L changes with the armature moving. I
suppose low L for unmoving and higher L *after* moving. If you look at the
energy of the decay pulse (when you release the Darlington), the high L
should give you higher energy. If the solenoid closes the magnetic circuit
fully when it strokes to the end, the increase will be large, otherwise
pretty small. You could measure this with a current sensor in the kickback
circuit driving a simple integrator. Quick diagram:

                       Coil drive +Vcc
                             o
                             |
Kickback diode Cathode o-----EBC-----R1--*--C1---GND
                                        |
                                        o Out (measure voltage vs. GND
                                              *after* turning off driver)

You will have to know something about the coil to choose R1 and C1. If
not, make trials. I suggest R1 = 1K and C1 = 0.01uF for a start. Measure
voltage on C1 with a peak-holding DVM.

Peter

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2002\04\09@153826 by Chris Loiacono

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Could you not also develop a power profile from the CT to an ADC across the
duration of the stroke ?
Then you could easily compare that to the profile that would result if the
stroke didn't complete..

Chris

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2002\04\10@174522 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
>Could you not also develop a power profile from the CT to an ADC across
>the duration of the stroke ? Then you could easily compare that to the
>profile that would result if the stroke didn't complete..

Yes, but the simpler integrator is applicable to existing hardware at low
cost. I presume that if the stroke measurement would be important then
suitable instrumentation would be used (as in proximity switch or other
such).

What you propose presumes that the coil will saturate after the plunger
moves. In my experience it is the other way around. However, then the
plunger closes the magnetic circuit there will be a smaller or larger jump
in the voltage (and thus current) on the coil. It may be too small to
measure.

Peter

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