Post by thread:[EE]: Oscilloscope

Gameboy oscilloscope... now _that_ sounds like fun! I would love to read that article when you finally get hold of it Justin. Regards, Simon Justin Grimm <.....eclipseKILLspam.....COASTLINK.COM.AU> on 22/09/2000 06:32:14 Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> To: PICLISTspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU cc: (bcc: Simon Nield/Quantel Research) Subject: [EE]: Oscilloscope Hi all Is it possible that anyone could scan the gameboy oscilloscope project in October Elektor magazine for me? I've ordered the mag but it's going to take at least 2-3 weeks to come. (They're still waiting for the Sep issue) Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks Justin Grimm @spam@krmKILLspamcoastlink.com.au -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! use KILLspamlistservKILLspammitvma.mit.edu?body=SET%20PICList%20DIGEST -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! use RemoveMElistservTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu?body=SET%20PICList%20DIGEST

In message <spamBeGoneDA3A3E91471FD411B8D60000F8B82B3F44FCCFspamBeGonezpgtd00e.europe.norte> l.com>, Michael Rigby-Jones <TakeThisOuTmrjonesEraseMEspam_OUTNORTELNETWORKS.COM> writes >I bought Elektor just for this article, a couple of us in work are keen to >build them. I really hope they are going to do a PCB for this. The only >downside is I can almost guarantee that the code will not be published, you >will have to buy a pre-programmed eprom from them. Yes, Elektor are really bad like that, almost all their software based projects require the software purchasing - also their PCB's are really expensive!. When they eventually got an E-mail address I tried asking them why they don't provide the code to download (like other magazines), I was told that the authors wouldn't allow it!. Sounds like bullsh*t to me :-). -- Nigel. /--------------------------------------------------------------\ | Nigel Goodwin | Internet : RemoveMEnigelgTakeThisOuTlpilsley.co.uk | | Lower Pilsley | Web Page : http://www.lpilsley.co.uk | | Chesterfield | Official site for Shin Ki and New Spirit | | England | Ju Jitsu | \--------------------------------------------------------------/ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On Mon, 25 Sep 2000 07:20:11 +0100, you wrote: >In message <DA3A3E91471FD411B8D60000F8B82B3F44FCCFEraseME.....zpgtd00e.europe.norte> >l.com>, Michael Rigby-Jones <EraseMEmrjonesNORTELNETWORKS.COM> writes >>I bought Elektor just for this article, a couple of us in work are keen to >>build them. I really hope they are going to do a PCB for this. The only >>downside is I can almost guarantee that the code will not be published, you >>will have to buy a pre-programmed eprom from them. > >Yes, Elektor are really bad like that, almost all their software based >projects require the software purchasing - also their PCB's are really >expensive!. When they eventually got an E-mail address I tried asking >them why they don't provide the code to download (like other magazines), >I was told that the authors wouldn't allow it!. Sounds like bullsh*t to >me :-). It's probably the only way they can afford to produce such professional projects and articles. Unlike many other mags, most of which are not around any more, Elektor have always published professional and interesting projects, often using recent technology (well let's forget about that 8086 SBC with 2114 RAMs they published a couple of years ago). Unless they can make money from things like PCBs and software it would probably be uneconomic to run the mag at all. There's no shortage of electronics design work out there (I doubt many professional PIClisters are twiddling their thumbs waiting for work to come in), so they have to pay well, or work in conjunction with commercial kit suppliers to be able to produce high quality designs. OK they are not always 'optimal' but are streets ahead of the amateur rubbish often seen in other mags. Elektor is one notable exception to my addition to a popular saying, especially true in the world of computer magazines... Those that can, do Those that can't do, teach Those that can't teach, write magazine articles. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> Yes, Elektor are really bad like that, almost all their software based > projects require the software purchasing - also their PCB's are really > expensive!. When they eventually got an E-mail address I tried asking > them why they don't provide the code to download (like other magazines), > I was told that the authors wouldn't allow it!. Sounds like bullsh*t to > me :-). I tried to arrange with Elektuur (dutch version, same company) to have one of my designs published, but their requirements were too stringent for me. I had to make the schema and PCB designs (OK) according to their rules (still fine) with their approved tools (OK if they really wanted that) but I had to purchase the tools myself (no way). So we did not get to the point were I wanted to provide my design on the www too... Wouter -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> -----Original Message----- > From: Alan B. Pearce [SMTP:RemoveMEA.B.Pearcespam_OUTKILLspamRL.AC.UK] > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 12:14 PM > To: RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: Re: [EE]: Oscilloscope > > >build them. I really hope they are going to do a PCB for this. The only > >downside is I can almost guarantee that the code will not be published, > you > >will have to buy a pre-programmed eprom from them. > > As the code is in a 27256 series eprom you should need to buy only one and > share the cost among the group of mates all wanting to build it. It does > not use any micro on the ROM board that makes the gameboy into an > oscilloscope - it uses the gameboy processor as a DSP. > We shall have to do this, but that wasn't the point really. It would have been nice to have the source if only for the educational value. Lots of other mags provide at least a source listing in the mag for short programs or a (freely) downloadable version on the publishers web site. Mike -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! use EraseMElistservspamspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu?body=SET%20PICList%20DIGEST

Is this code available for free? If not, then isn't what you are suggesting just what people complain about everytime somebody asks how to get around the code protection on a PIC? Apologies if I have got the wrong end of the stick. Martin {Quote hidden}> >build them. I really hope they are going to do a PCB for this. The only > >downside is I can almost guarantee that the code will not be published, you > >will have to buy a pre-programmed eprom from them. > > As the code is in a 27256 series eprom you should need to buy only one and share the cost among the group of mates all wanting to build it. It does not use any micro on the ROM board that makes the gameboy into an oscilloscope - it uses the gameboy processor as a DSP. > > -- > http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! > use RemoveMElistservKILLspammitvma.mit.edu?body T%20PICList%20DIGEST > > -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! use listservSTOPspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu?body=SET%20PICList%20DIGEST

<SOAPBOX> The question is being avoided: Can one _legally_ copy that EPROM? This isn't really a question of morality or Elektor's business practices. </SOAPBOX> Bob Ammerman RAm Systems (contract development of high performance, high function, low-level software) ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Rigby-Jones <KILLspammrjonesspamBeGoneNORTELNETWORKS.COM> To: <EraseMEPICLISTEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 7:53 AM Subject: Re: [EE]: Oscilloscope > > > >build them. I really hope they are going to do a PCB for this. The > > only > > > >downside is I can almost guarantee that the code will not be published, > > you > > > >will have to buy a pre-programmed eprom from them. > > > > > > As the code is in a 27256 series eprom you should need to buy only one > > and share the cost among the group of mates all wanting to build it. It > > does not use any micro on the ROM board that makes the gameboy into an > > oscilloscope - it uses the gameboy processor as a DSP. > > > > > > {Original Message removed}

cut'n'pasted from the uk elektor website: -------------------- Gameboy Digital Sampling Oscilloscope (GBDSO) 990082-1 PCB 8.25 16.50 996035-1 disk, DSO Grab and Mathcad demo appl. 8.50 17.00 996528-1 EPROM AT27C256 (PLCC44), programmed 14.00 28.00 990082-C Set: PCB + 996035-1+ 996528-1 27.50 55.00 and: The Gameboy Digital Sampling Oscilloscope (GBDSO) is described in the October and November 2000 issues of Elektor Electronics. To make sure the PCB fits in the space available for game cartridges, we had to resort to SMA components. With dexterity, accuracy and good eyesight, these tiny parts can be soldered. The empty PCB, programmed EPROM and auxiliary software on disk are available as separate items or as a set through our Readers Services. The price of the set (PCB, EPROM and disk) is £27.50 incl. VAT, plus P&P. However, because not everyone is able and willing to solder SMA parts, we intend to supply ready-stuffed and continuity-checked GBDSO boards. These boards contain all the parts soldered in place. The price is £73.50 each incl. VAT, plus P&P. At 250+ pieces the price will be lower. -------------------- first price is in UKP second is in USD. No suprise to see that the traditional UKP=USD only works one way. it's a bit steep, but not horrific. pity the local newsagent doesn't stock the magazine... Regards, Simon -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! use @spam@listserv@spam@spam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu?bodyT%20PICList%20DIGEST

All, Does anyone know what the expected or effective bandwidth of this DSO is? or is supposed to be? If it is less than 1 Mhz, it really isn't practical for much of anything except novelty. If it's >1 Mhz but less than 50 Mhz, it should be useful for audio and some non critical higher frequency signals. Ideally, it would be at least 50 Mhz, but I reaaly doubt that a game machine that costs <$75.00 or so is going to be able to handle that speed. Anyway, just curious. Regards, Jim On Mon, 02 October 2000, Bob Ammerman wrote: {Quote hidden}> > <SOAPBOX> > > The question is being avoided: > > Can one _legally_ copy that EPROM? > > This isn't really a question of morality or Elektor's business practices. > > </SOAPBOX> > > Bob Ammerman > RAm Systems > (contract development of high performance, high function, low-level > software) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Michael Rigby-Jones <spamBeGonemrjonesKILLspamNORTELNETWORKS.COM> > To: <.....PICLISTspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 7:53 AM > Subject: Re: [EE]: Oscilloscope > > > > > > >build them. I really hope they are going to do a PCB for this. The > > > only > > > > >downside is I can almost guarantee that the code will not be > published, > > > you > > > > >will have to buy a pre-programmed eprom from them. > > > > > > > > As the code is in a 27256 series eprom you should need to buy only one > > > and share the cost among the group of mates all wanting to build it. It > > > does not use any micro on the ROM board that makes the gameboy into an > > > oscilloscope - it uses the gameboy processor as a DSP. > > > > > > > > > {Original Message removed}

It is a 1MSPS device, so the effective bandwidth for analog signals is around 200kHz. You can check out the specs at: http://www-ev.phy.cam.ac.uk/Homepages/Steve/Gameboy/DsoDemo/DsoDemo.htm -Adam James Paul wrote: {Quote hidden}> > All, > > Does anyone know what the expected or effective bandwidth of this > DSO is? or is supposed to be? If it is less than 1 Mhz, it really > isn't practical for much of anything except novelty. If it's >1 Mhz > but less than 50 Mhz, it should be useful for audio and some non > critical higher frequency signals. Ideally, it would be at least 50 > Mhz, but I reaaly doubt that a game machine that costs <$75.00 or so > is going to be able to handle that speed. Anyway, just curious. > > Regards, > > Jim > > On Mon, 02 October 2000, Bob Ammerman wrote: > > > > > <SOAPBOX> > > > > The question is being avoided: > > > > Can one _legally_ copy that EPROM? > > > > This isn't really a question of morality or Elektor's business practices. > > > > </SOAPBOX> > > > > Bob Ammerman > > RAm Systems > > (contract development of high performance, high function, low-level > > software) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Michael Rigby-Jones <TakeThisOuTmrjones.....TakeThisOuTNORTELNETWORKS.COM> > > To: <TakeThisOuTPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> > > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 7:53 AM > > Subject: Re: [EE]: Oscilloscope > > > > > > > > > >build them. I really hope they are going to do a PCB for this. The > > > > only > > > > > >downside is I can almost guarantee that the code will not be > > published, > > > > you > > > > > >will have to buy a pre-programmed eprom from them. > > > > > > > > > > As the code is in a 27256 series eprom you should need to buy only one > > > > and share the cost among the group of mates all wanting to build it. It > > > > does not use any micro on the ROM board that makes the gameboy into an > > > > oscilloscope - it uses the gameboy processor as a DSP. > > > > > > > > > > > > {Original Message removed}

In message <.....E13g3w8-0006ke-00RemoveMEnottingham.ac.uk>, Martin Hill <RemoveMEeaxmjhispamBeGoneNOTTINGHAM.AC.UK> writes >Is this code available for free? If not, then isn't what you are >suggesting just what people complain about everytime somebody >asks how to get around the code protection on a PIC? Apologies if >I have got the wrong end of the stick. Perhaps so!. But the EPROM isn't protected at all, and the author isn't being deprived of anything - according to his website Elektor don't allow him to distribute his own code, they sell it instead!. I E-mailed Elektor when they first opened their website about this very issue, their excuse was that the authors don't allow the code to be distributed, I considered this totally unlikely, and the website from the author of the Gameboy scope proves this!. -- Nigel. /--------------------------------------------------------------\ | Nigel Goodwin | Internet : spamBeGonenigelg@spam@spam_OUTlpilsley.co.uk | | Lower Pilsley | Web Page : http://www.lpilsley.co.uk | | Chesterfield | Official site for Shin Ki and New Spirit | | England | Ju Jitsu | \--------------------------------------------------------------/ -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! use TakeThisOuTlistservspammitvma.mit.edu?body=SET%20PICList%20DIGEST

Some time ago, I have worked on a similar project, using a 20MS/s ADC and a Gameboy (tested on both Color and B&W), but I've stopped the project as I coudn't get the analog section to work properly... I don't have access to the Elektor magazine here in Brazil, but my code is almost finished, can some kind soul send a scanned copy of the article? If so, I can make my code to work with this circuit and share with you for *free* :D Simon Nield wrote: {Quote hidden}> cut'n'pasted from the uk elektor website: > > -------------------- > Gameboy Digital Sampling Oscilloscope (GBDSO) > 990082-1 PCB 8.25 16.50 > 996035-1 disk, DSO Grab and Mathcad demo appl. 8.50 17.00 > 996528-1 EPROM AT27C256 (PLCC44), programmed 14.00 28.00 > 990082-C Set: PCB + 996035-1+ 996528-1 27.50 55.00 > > and: > > The Gameboy Digital Sampling Oscilloscope (GBDSO) > is described in the October and November 2000 issues of Elektor Electronics. > > To make sure the PCB fits in the space available for game cartridges, we had to resort to SMA > components. > With dexterity, accuracy and good eyesight, these tiny parts can be soldered. The empty PCB, > programmed EPROM > and auxiliary software on disk are available as separate items or as a set through our Readers > Services. The > price of the set (PCB, EPROM and disk) is £27.50 incl. VAT, plus P&P. > > However, because not everyone is able and willing to solder SMA parts, we intend to supply > ready-stuffed and > continuity-checked GBDSO boards. These boards contain all the parts soldered in place. > The price is £73.50 each incl. VAT, plus P&P. At 250+ pieces the price will be lower. > -------------------- > > first price is in UKP second is in USD. No suprise to see that the traditional UKP=USD only works > one way. > it's a bit steep, but not horrific. > > pity the local newsagent doesn't stock the magazine... > > Regards, > Simon > > -- > http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! > use listservEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu?bodyþT%20PICList%20DIGEST -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu

>Some time ago, I have worked on a similar project, using a 20MS/s ADC and a Gameboy (tested on both >Color and B&W), but I've stopped the project as I coudn't get the analog section to work properly... >I don't have access to the Elektor magazine here in Brazil, but my code is almost finished, can some >kind soul send a scanned copy of the article? >If so, I can make my code to work with this circuit and share with you for *free* :D You can find the elekitor magazine here. I find it every month in Livraria Siciliano. You can find a great bunch of imported magazines there - at the price they want. Of course, you can subscribe the magazine - I used to do that with Nuts & Volts. --------------8<-------Corte aqui-------8<-------------- All the best!!! Alexandre Souza @spam@xandinhoRemoveMEEraseMEinterlink.com.br --------------8<-------Corte aqui-------8<-------------- -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList EraseMEpiclist-unsubscribe-request@spam@mitvma.mit.edu

Everyday Practical Electronics are doing a PIC dual-chan virtual scope by John Becker. October 2000. Which has been talked about on the list the frequency range is nominal audio below 1kHz to over 10kHz. The ram chips used are 32k 75ns, the pic is a 16C877-20 but running at only 5mHz. Jinx I think was talking about using 15n cache chips and what if you up the speed to 20mHz. could this extend the range to 40-50mHz? But the point I'm trying to make is the software and code for the PIC is down loadable from their website http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk plus lots of other projects like the MicroPICscope design very much like the above but using PIC16C876-20 still running at 5mHz ;-(... But the display used is a 16x2 line Lcd. showing Waveform pixels, Rate ? Frequency and Amplitude. This is a Project I will take bits out of a very good learning execise. Regards Art ----- Original Message ----- From: M. Adam Davis <@spam@adavisspam_OUT.....UBASICS.COM> To: <spamBeGonePICLISTEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [EE]: Oscilloscope > It is a 1MSPS device, so the effective bandwidth for analog signals is around {Quote hidden}> 200kHz. > > You can check out the specs at: > http://www-ev.phy.cam.ac.uk/Homepages/Steve/Gameboy/DsoDemo/DsoDemo.htm > > -Adam > > James Paul wrote: > > > > All, > > > > Does anyone know what the expected or effective bandwidth of this > > DSO is? or is supposed to be? If it is less than 1 Mhz, it really > > isn't practical for much of anything except novelty. If it's >1 Mhz > > but less than 50 Mhz, it should be useful for audio and some non > > critical higher frequency signals. Ideally, it would be at least 50 > > Mhz, but I reaaly doubt that a game machine that costs <$75.00 or so > > is going to be able to handle that speed. Anyway, just curious. > > > > Regards, > > > > Jim > > > > On Mon, 02 October 2000, Bob Ammerman wrote: > > > > > > > > <SOAPBOX> > > > > > > The question is being avoided: > > > > > > Can one _legally_ copy that EPROM? > > > > > > This isn't really a question of morality or Elektor's business practices. {Quote hidden}> > > > > > </SOAPBOX> > > > > > > Bob Ammerman > > > RAm Systems > > > (contract development of high performance, high function, low-level > > > software) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Michael Rigby-Jones <mrjonesspamBeGoneNORTELNETWORKS.COM> > > > To: <RemoveMEPICLIST@spam@spamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU> > > > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 7:53 AM > > > Subject: Re: [EE]: Oscilloscope > > > > > > > > > > > > >build them. I really hope they are going to do a PCB for this. The > > > > > only > > > > > > >downside is I can almost guarantee that the code will not be > > > published, > > > > > you > > > > > > >will have to buy a pre-programmed eprom from them. > > > > > > > > > > > > As the code is in a 27256 series eprom you should need to buy only one > > > > > and share the cost among the group of mates all wanting to build it. It > > > > > does not use any micro on the ROM board that makes the gameboy into an > > > > > oscilloscope - it uses the gameboy processor as a DSP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > {Original Message removed}

> -----Original Message----- > From: Russell McMahon [SMTP:.....apptech@spam@EraseMECLEAR.NET.NZ] > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 12:27 PM > To: .....PICLISTRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: Re: [EE]: Oscilloscope > > How much is the code to purchase? > > I have several possible apps for a gameboy (apart from those intended by > Nintendo which my son would be interested in ;-) ) and this could be the > "killer app" to make them worthwhile. > > > > Russell McMahon > _____________________________ > Don't know yet, it should be listed in next months magazine. Not sure of the publishing date, but I'll let you know when I get it. Just need to get a PLCC adapter for our Eprom programmer and we should be set. Probably I'll make a cheap 'n' nasty version with a standard PLCC socket, and dil header and lots of bits of wires. Hmm..sounds like a job for the student on work experience :o) Mike -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: "[PIC]:" PIC only "[EE]:" engineering "[OT]:" off topic "[AD]:" ad's

Trigger is the greatest function a scope may have. It's sincronize the trace on your signal: on rising edge, on falling edge, on TV signalls, on dc signals ( these are most common internal triggers ) You may also sincronize your signal with an external one. ( important at high frequencies or noisy signals ) Without a good trigger you will see an unusefull moving trace...with your signal on it. Vasile On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, Gonzalo Jimenez Yamasaki wrote: {Quote hidden}> Hi to all: > > Can anybody explain me please what is and how does it work the option > "trigger" in a Oscillospe... > > Thanks in advance... > > Gonzalo > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: > [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads > > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics