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'[EE] Schmitt Trigger Icc? (current consumption in '
2019\08\30@145621 by Jason White

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part 1 382 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset="utf-8" (decoded base64)

Hello Everyone,

I am looking at the datasheet of the 74LVC2G17 " Dual non-inverting Schmitt
trigger with 5 V tolerant input"

I have attached two graphs which I would like help interpreting. My
question: do these graphs mean that current consumption goes up to 12mA
when the input signal is in the undefined region?

--
Jason White

part 2 7070 bytes content-type:image/png; name="icc2.png" (decode)


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part 4 197 bytes content-type:text/plain; name="ATT00001.txt"
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2019\08\30@173554 by Jason White

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I wonder if bipolar devices are available in the smaller packages.

On Friday, August 30, 2019, <spam_OUTmad.scientist.at.largeTakeThisOuTspamtutanota.com> wrote:

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2019\08\30@191828 by Bob Blick

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Hi Jason,

Take a look at the 4S584. It is a schmitt trigger using the old "CMOS B" process. Not fast, not high current. It's a single gate in a small package.

Maybe good enough? I don't have any data specific to Ic in the transition region, so you will need to test. I would think it'd be under a few hundred uA at Vsupply 3.3V.

Best regards, Bob

________________________________________
From: piclist-bouncesspamKILLspammit.edu <.....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam.....mit.edu> on behalf of Jason White Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 11:55 AM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: [EE] Schmitt Trigger Icc? (current consumption in undefined region)

Hello Everyone,

I am looking at the datasheet of the 74LVC2G17 " Dual non-inverting Schmitt
trigger with 5 V tolerant input"

I have attached two graphs which I would like help interpreting. My
question: do these graphs mean that current consumption goes up to 12mA
when the input signal is in the undefined region?

--
Jason White

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2019\08\30@195721 by RussellMc

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74LVC2G17 data sheet here:

assets.nexperia.com/documents/data-sheet/74LVC2G17.pdf
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2019\08\30@201843 by RussellMc

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On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 at 06:58, Jason White <EraseMEwhitewaterssoftwareinfospam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com>
wrote:

> I am looking at the datasheet of the 74LVC2G17 " Dual non-inverting Schmitt
> trigger with 5 V tolerant input"
>
> I have attached two graphs which I would like help interpreting. My
> question: do these graphs mean that current consumption goes up to 12mA
> when the input signal is in the undefined region?


Apart from the "minor detail" of being inverters and not buffers, the
74HC2G14 / 74HCT2G14 comes much closer to the transition currents that you
desire.
Available drive current is in the order of 4 mA at Vcc = 5V.
Ye olde tech HC/HCT seems to still have some advantages (as Bob noted).
2 x 2 input ANDs or 4 x inverters would provide 2 buffers if available.


https://assets.nexperia.com/documents/data-sheet/74HC_HCT2G14.pdf

 Icc peak                           for Vcc

0.2 / 0.6 mA low-high / high-low   at Vcc = 5V
and
60 /   80 uA                       at Vcc = 2V


Russell
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2019\08\30@211451 by Brent Brown

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Hi Jason Most recent Schmitt trigger part i used was from Diodes Inc...https://www.diodes.com/assets/Datasheets/74LVC1G17.pdfNot much info in the above data sheet about increased current at transition levels. Supply current max 10uA, or 200uA extended temp. There is a figure for "additional supply current", at Vin = Vcc-0.6V, 500uA max, or 5mA extended temp... perhaps that is it.--Jason White wrote:Hello Everyone,I am looking at the datasheet of the 74LVC2G17 " Dual non-inverting Schmitttrigger with 5 V tolerant input"I have attached two graphs which I would like help interpreting. Myquestion: do these graphs mean that current consumption goes up to 12mAwhen the input signal is in the undefined region?
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2019\08\30@211947 by Jason White

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Gosh, I am not so sure about running at a mere 2.0V.

What do you guys think of a NPN Darlington like the MMBTA28-7-F to ground
with a 100k resistor to 5v. I think am going to have to trade squareness
for low power consumption.

The source is a slow moving 0 to 40v signal (with 10us 600v transients)
that can provide up to 10mA. So perhaps a 4.7k input resistor and a ferrite
bead?

On Friday, August 30, 2019, RussellMc <apptechnzspamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:

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2019\08\30@231407 by Brent Brown

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Which part(s) do you want to detect/measure, the 0-40V or the 600V transients, or both?
-------- Original message --------From: Jason WhiteThe source is a slow moving 0 to 40v signal (with 10us 600v transients)that can provide up to 10mA. So perhaps a 4.7k input resistor and a ferritebead?
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2019\08\31@002520 by Bob Blick

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Supply voltage of HC is 2-6V and CMOS B is 3-15V. My thought is, a part rated up to 15V suggests the transistors will have a pretty high on-resistance running at 3V. Just look at the available output current at that supply voltage - it's almost pitiful for CMOS B parts. The 4S584 specs at only 1mA at that voltage, and only 1.5mA at 5V. The HC/HCT parts don't have a rating at 3V, but it's 4mA at 4.5V. Supply current should be correspondingly low on the 4S584.

Cheerful regards, Bob

________________________________________
From: KILLspampiclist-bouncesKILLspamspammit.edu <RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesTakeThisOuTspammit.edu> on behalf of RussellMc Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 5:18 PM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: [EE] Schmitt Trigger Icc? (current consumption in undefined        region)

On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 at 06:58, Jason White wrote:

> I am looking at the datasheet of the 74LVC2G17 " Dual non-inverting Schmitt
> trigger with 5 V tolerant input"
>
> I have attached two graphs which I would like help interpreting. My
> question: do these graphs mean that current consumption goes up to 12mA
> when the input signal is in the undefined region?


Apart from the "minor detail" of being inverters and not buffers, the
74HC2G14 / 74HCT2G14 comes much closer to the transition currents that you
desire.
Available drive current is in the order of 4 mA at Vcc = 5V.
Ye olde tech HC/HCT seems to still have some advantages (as Bob noted).
2 x 2 input ANDs or 4 x inverters would provide 2 buffers if available.


https://assets.nexperia.com/documents/data-sheet/74HC_HCT2G14.pdf

 Icc peak                           for Vcc

0.2 / 0.6 mA low-high / high-low   at Vcc = 5V
and
60 /   80 uA                       at Vcc = 2V


Russell
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2019\08\31@011631 by RussellMc

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If you don't mind a few components you could implement a classic discrete 2
transistor Schmitt trigger
<www.google.com/search?q=schmitt+trigger+transistor&rlz=1C1CHBF_enNZ834NZ839&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjNr-6QqazkAhUXbisKHYOECkQQ_AUIESgB&biw=2048&bih=1025>
with two BJTs and 5 resistors. Component sizes can be at "breathing hazard"
level if you can handle them.

Or with 4 resistors
<www.edn.com/design/analog/4437676/Schmitt-trigger-uses-two-transistors>using
an NPN/PNP pair.

You can then design I_max_transition to suit.


Data sheets are for dimension information only:

DFN2020B-3
2 x 2 mm
https://www.diodes.com/assets/Datasheets/ZXTN619MA.pdf

DFN1006B-3 / SOT883 / SC101
1.3 x 0.9 mm
https://assets.nexperia.com/documents/data-sheet/PMBT3906M.pdf

Resistors

Choose your poison

0.4 x 0.2 mm
0.6 x 0.3
1.0 x 0.5
.....
http://www.samsungsem.com/kr/support/product-search/chip-resistor/__icsFiles/afieldfile/2019/01/21/RC_Spec_Sheet(1901).pdf




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2019\08\31@125723 by AB Pearce - UKRI STFC

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I would look at using one of the micropower op-amps that Microchip make in an SOT-23 package, with a couple of resistors to make a Schmitt trigger. Should be low current throughout the transition, and there are some that operate down to 1.8V.



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