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PICList Thread
'[EE] Where to find quality motors and controllers'
2009\04\12@141221 by solarwind

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On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Michael Algernon <spam_OUTpicTakeThisOuTspamnope9.com> wrote:
> I am not sure if this is an EE topic.
> I have read that high end newer appliances ( washers and dryers
> mostly ) have motors and controllers that are quite useful for hackers/
> experimenters.  I am wondering what brands of appliances are using the
> higher quality motors and where one might find such items in a used
> condition.  I don't mind repairing them.
> MA

Aren't these high end appliances usually *very* expensive? Like... in
the thousands of dollars range?

By the way, two thirds of your message is spam :(

2009\04\12@141317 by Sean Breheny

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I would guess that you are talking about AC induction motors and
variable frequency drives (VFDs - not to be confused with Vacuum
Fluorescent Displays). This is the way almost all very high power
motors work - like in elevators or large industrial machines. The
cheaper options are squirrel cage motors, permanent magnet brushless
AC motors, and brushed AC motors. AC induction motors have the
advantages of PM brushless (no brushes to wear out, high power for
their size and weight) but do not have the limitations imposed by
permanent magnets (upper limit on magnetic field without demagnetizing
the magnets, difficulty in making huge permanent magnets, etc.)

I can't name specific appliances but perhaps if you google using the
terms AC induction motor or variable frequency drive in conjunction
with various appliances, you may find them.

Sean


On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Michael Algernon <.....picKILLspamspam@spam@nope9.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2009\04\12@161240 by Michael Algernon

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>
> On Apr 12, 2009, at 12:12 PM, solarwind wrote:
>
> On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Michael Algernon <picspamKILLspamnope9.com>  
> wrote:
>> I am not sure if this is an EE topic.
>> I have read that high end newer appliances ( washers and dryers
>> mostly ) have motors and controllers that are quite useful for  
>> hackers/
>> experimenters.  I am wondering what brands of appliances are using  
>> the
>> higher quality motors and where one might find such items in a used
>> condition.  I don't mind repairing them.
>> MA
>
> Aren't these high end appliances usually *very* expensive? Like... in
> the thousands of dollars range?
Okay, I am looking for them in "junk" condition.
>
>
> By the way, two thirds of your message is spam :(
>
47 words in signature versus 62 in the message for a possible 43% spam  
percentage .......  if you don't like my signature.

2009\04\12@172539 by olin piclist

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Michael Algernon wrote:
> 47 words in signature versus 62 in the message

Which means nothing.  Let's count up the score:

>> I am not sure if this is an EE topic.
>> I have read that high end newer appliances ( washers and dryers
>> mostly ) have motors and controllers that are quite useful for
>> hackers/ experimenters. I am wondering what brands of appliances are
>> using the higher quality motors and where one might find such items
>> in a used condition. I don't mind repairing them.

That's 6 lines of content.

>> MA
>>

2 lines of totally redundant waste because this is available in the message
headers, assuming MA is supposed to be your initials.

>> WFT Electronics
>> Denver, CO 720 222 1309

Two lines of reasonable signature.

>> " dent the UNIVERSE "

1 line of silly content-free blah blah at best.  Insulting marketing slogan
at worst if you thing this actually affects us in a positive way somehow.

>>
>> All ideas, text, drawings and audio , that are originated by WFT
>> Electronics ( and it's principals ), that are included with this
>> signature text are to be deemed to be released to the public domain
>> as of the date of this communication .

5 lines of "looky here folks, we done bin edjumacated!!", which leaves
everyone wondering if you are a lawyer, your company is infested by lawyers
to the extent one might ponder whether WTF Electronics can get out of its
own way, or if you're really that clueless about how the internet works.

>>
>> --

2009\04\12@193135 by Bob Blick

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Olin Lathrop wrote:
> Michael Algernon wrote:
>> 47 words in signature versus 62 in the message
>
> Which means nothing.  Let's count up the score:

Time for a cage match, gentlemen? Two men enter, one man leave!

Perhaps it's better for everyone if you work it out off-list. Thank you.

Best regards,

Bob

2009\04\12@233714 by William \Chops\ Westfield

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On Apr 12, 2009, at 2:26 PM, Olin Lathrop wrote:

> 2 lines of totally redundant waste

And yet, you'd complain (you HAVE complained) if the subject line  
isn't repeated in the message body :-)

A certain amount of redundancy, and even silliness, is either useful  
or "sociable" (or both.)

>  Message                6
>  Signature              2
>  Your stupidity         8
>  PIClist stupidity      5

I've stopped complaining about such things since they've become  
dwarfed by the "overhead nonsense" inserted by mail software and  
agents.  Turn on raw headers or whatever your agent calls it, and  
you'll find *58* lines of mail header (of which maybe 8 are useful  
data. (the vast majority are lines tracing the path the message took  
through assorted relay points, which are OCCASIONALLY useful for  
debugging problems.  But this has grown to about 4 lines of info for  
each hop, which is a bit ridiculous.  Sigh.  I have a message sent  
back in the mid 80s whose entire text is "I don't understand your  
concern about message headers becoming too large" (with about 4k of  
attached headers including "Coke-machine-status:" and such)  Next to a  
modern email message, it looks small and relatively interesting :-( )

BillW


2009\04\13@012517 by Russell McMahon

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Some reordering for context flow

>> I am not sure if this is an EE topic.

Looks like potentially EE to me. It's talking about doing things with
electrical things that can be done at an individual level. Just as long as
nobody hijacks the thread and turns it into a whinging session about
something else instead all should be well :-).

>> I have read that high end newer appliances ( washers and dryers
>> mostly ) have motors and controllers that are quite useful for
>> hackers / experimenters.

> Aren't these high end appliances usually *very* expensive? Like... in
> the thousands of dollars range?

Should this be true, and it's not necessarily so, what relevance would that
have to the question? And, even appliances that start life as 'expensive'
usually end life being worth scrap value, or of negative value if you have
to pay to take them away. Appliances which quite possibly fill MA's
requirement are thrown out here reqgularly.

>> I am wondering what brands of appliances are using the
>> higher quality motors and where one might find such items
>> in a used condition. I don't mind repairing them.

"Higher quality" is an uncertain appelation.
If you mean "horrendously useful" you may be talking about brushless DC
motors such as are used in eg a numner of washing machines. These develop
enough torque and enough speed (by design) to be able to be used to directly
spin up bowls fill of clothes + water and to drive agitators or similar
without using a gearbox.

While it would be possible to use these devices as motors in their own right
they are much more commonly used as alternators for wind and water (usually)
power generation.

One brand, which originated in NZ but is sold in the US and now manufactured
AFAIR in Mexico* is "Fisher & Paykel". They call their direct drive motor
the "Smart Drive".

There is a very busy after-market trade in their motors and they are used in
many wind-turbine applications.

Useful note:  RPM x torque ~= Watts (to within about 2%)

> By the way, two thirds of your message is spam :(

One man's spam ...

<interesting spam on>

Expensive new F&P machines available in the US.
Look for them in local dumpsters in due course (you may have to wait 10 to
20 years for these ones)
  http://www.fisherpaykel.com/laundry/

Moving to Mexico, Italy and Thailand as of April 2008:
www.fisherpaykel.com/shadomx/apps/fms/fmsdownload.cfm?file_uuid=59520612-FB46-9A77-E532-C0B78073535E&siteName=fpcom
As announced earlier today, the Company has acquired land and buildings and
arefrigeration manufacturing plant located in Reynosa, Mexico.

The new global manufacturing strategy involves shifting three of the Company's

manufacturing facilities to a combination of existing sites in Thailand and
Italy and its

recently purchased facility in Mexico.

The Range & DishDrawer factory in Dunedin, New Zealand, along with the

refrigerator plant in Brisbane, Australia and the DCS cooking factory in
California,

USA will all be relocated over the next 12-18 months.

</interesting spam on>


Smart drive stator
http://images.google.co.nz/imgres?imgurl=http://www.yourgreendream.com/images/diy/fp_rw_orig.JPG&imgrefurl=www.yourgreendream.com/diy_fp_rewire.php&usg=__0IzCiz8K7zuSTW6xWiAnMDChQOI=&h=1317&w=1695&sz=926&hl=en&start=4&sig2=BIo5ZZh1N8gqhj1uJMHA6g&tbnid=h_wx_ruKFswaRM:&tbnh=117&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522smart%2Bdrive%2522%26imgsz%3Dhuge%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26newwindow%3D1&ei=TMriSbnHHoH-swORnPmjDg
Smart drive rotor
http://images.google.co.nz/imgres?imgurl=http://www.yourgreendream.com/images/diy/GD_FP_DIS_02_Remove_Hub_large.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.yourgreendream.com/diy_fp_remove_from_wm.php&usg=__jK10Zd-sITVLUid3nG5uwVOv8Jc=&h=1632&w=1224&sz=139&hl=en&start=8&sig2=j8BzgcjLnx5OpbDXtQQQzw&tbnid=gPM0dcSLzFa9WM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=113&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522smart%2Bdrive%2522%26imgsz%3Dhuge%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26newwindow%3D1&ei=TMriSbnHHoH-swORnPmjDg




R




> MA


2009\04\13@015612 by Russell McMahon

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> Michael Algernon wrote:
>> 47 words in signature versus 62 in the message

> Which means nothing.  Let's count up the score:

If people must talk about such things PLEASE do so in OT, at best.

Manifestly such discussions do not belong in EE.
I know you* know I know you* know that - which makes me wonder what drives
you* to continually behave so.


    Russell

* English lacking distinctive singular and plural forms in this instance,
please assume obvious form as appropriate.


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