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'[EE] oxidized pins'
2019\03\03@015306 by Manu Abraham

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Hi,

I have this large bag of through-hole standard crystals, which have
their pins oxidized, since the bag was left open for a while and thus
solderability is a big issue.

The crystals are good, just that time has to be spent scraping the
oxide of the pins which is a waste of time.

Is there a better way to remove the oxide layer other than scraping,
probably by a chemical process or so ?

Any thoughts ?

Thanks,
Manu
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2019\03\03@065804 by Jason White

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A dremel plus a small brass wire wheel might do the trick. I suspect that
if you built a fixture to hold >25 crystals at a time in a vise that a
suitably skilled and motivated person could clean up your crystals in very
little time. (A strip of perfboard, a block of wood, and some bolts.
Sandwich the crystals between the perfboard and the wood with the pins
poking through the holes in the perfboard. Use threaded fasteners to hold
it together. Then clamp the wood block in a vise and wire bush away. Rinse
and repeat until finished)

Alternatively,

It is hard to say if the really nasty acid core fluxes would be suitable
for electronic components. You'd probably have to clean them after.

-Jason White


On Sunday, March 3, 2019, Manu Abraham <spam_OUTabraham.manuTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com> wrote:

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2019\03\03@073242 by Peter

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Slow method but may work, would need to try on actual oxidized crystal legs. Dip into flux and then re-tin in solder pot?

I say this because we have some switches and connectors, which get oxidized and the above works.

Peter.

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2019\03\03@074050 by Manu Abraham

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The problem with the scraping approach is that, the scraping might not
reach the pin in it's entirety (the circumference, I mean). wherever
the scraping does not reach, the solder does not like to stick in any
manner. That's the reason, why I would like to avoid the scrape
approach.

Thanks,
Manu

On Sun, Mar 3, 2019 at 5:31 PM Jason White
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2019\03\03@075348 by Manu Abraham

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I think, if it works that's a better option, probably. Need to give it
a shot and see how it goes. Any particular flux you suggest ?

In the solder pot, one of the issues that I came up was that, the lead
or maybe tin burns up and forms a kind of crusty film over the molten
solder. Appears to me that over time, it needs to skimmed away ?

Regarding the flux, is rosin a better alternative ? Have seen some
people use an acid based flux (looks slightly yellowish liquid in
color, skin except on the palm itches on contact. Smells probably like
chlorine gas liberation. When used with normal soldering, there are no
residues after soldering, but leaves a very small amount of ash
residue, in a ring form). Wonder whether it is a HCl based flux.
Wonder whether that can be used in a solder pot.

Thanks,

Manu

On Sun, Mar 3, 2019 at 6:04 PM Peter <.....great_pic_nKILLspamspam.....westnet.com.au> wrote:
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2019\03\03@075805 by AB Pearce - UKRI STFC

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Personally I would start by using some IPA and a course cloth like denim to scrub each pin in a circular motion as you work the cloth from the body to the pin end. You will need to pinch the cloth tight so it is really scrubbing the pin.

Then if they are to be soldered I would dip the pins into a pot of rosin and then into a solder pot to tin them. Keep the time in the solder pot to a minimum as it is possible to damage internal connections and the crystal itself if things get too hot.



{Original Message removed}

2019\03\03@081124 by Jason White

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As others have mentioned: In order for the Flux to be effective it may be
necessary to first penetrate the oxide layer mechanically in at least one
spot.

Best of luck!
-Jason White


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2019\03\03@081124 by smplx

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On Sun, 3 Mar 2019, Manu Abraham wrote:

> I think, if it works that's a better option, probably. Need to give it
> a shot and see how it goes. Any particular flux you suggest ?
>
> In the solder pot, one of the issues that I came up was that, the lead
> or maybe tin burns up and forms a kind of crusty film over the molten
> solder. Appears to me that over time, it needs to skimmed away ?

I always thought that the flux was there to "reduce" oxides which formed a barrier to "wetting". I've never used a solder pot but I would expect adding a tiny amount of flux would "reduce" the crusty film back to a shiny metal. Depending on the flux, if it doesn't completely burn off, you might get a "slag" formed which might need to be skimmed off the top.

Regards
Sergio

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2019\03\03@092605 by Peter

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Hi Manu,

We do alot of work using a solder pot and the solder will form a discolored top layer over time as the solder stays heated, this is normal. When you are ready to use the solder pot, the 'dross' as it's called is scraped away with a metal scraper. The idea is you dip your wire/leg into the flux and then into the hot solder pot. A simple in and out action, not leaving it in the pot at all. When removed all wires or legs are perfectly tinned and solder easily.

I will have to check which flux we use and report back to you. We buy it in large quantities. The flux we use has a water clear appearance but you do need fume extraction as you would not breath any of the fumes. The flux greatly helps the solder wetting process. We use lead free solder in all our solder pots and in the wave soldering machine.

Peter

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On 3/03/2019 11:53 pm, Manu Abraham wrote:
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2019\03\03@093728 by AB Pearce - UKRI STFC

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>> I think, if it works that's a better option, probably. Need to give it
>> a shot and see how it goes. Any particular flux you suggest ?
>>
>> In the solder pot, one of the issues that I came up was that, the lead
>> or maybe tin burns up and forms a kind of crusty film over the molten
>> solder. Appears to me that over time, it needs to skimmed away ?
>
> I always thought that the flux was there to "reduce" oxides which formed a barrier to "wetting".
Flux is an activated acid that in effect etches away the oxidisation. That is why it is always recommended to clean it off a PCB after soldering - and very especially if the product is to be used in a humid environment.

> I've never used a solder pot but I would expect adding a tiny amount of flux would "reduce" the
> crusty film back to a shiny metal. Depending on the flux, if it doesn't completely burn off, you
> might get a "slag" formed which might need to be skimmed off the top.

A good solder pot has a motor that rotates the pot and a wiper that is wiping the slag off the top of the molten solder, so that when an item is dipped it is into a clean surface.
If a solder pot doesn't have a wiping system then the surface should be manually wiped clean each time a component is dipped.



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2019\03\03@102503 by Manu Abraham

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Hi Peter,

That's what I did with the solder pot. Would like to know what would
be the ideal flux.

Thanks,
Manu

On Sun, Mar 3, 2019 at 7:58 PM Peter <@spam@great_pic_nKILLspamspamwestnet.com.au> wrote:
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2019\03\03@102700 by Manu Abraham

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Thanks to all the folks for chiming in their ideas and thoughts. The
feedback has been really helpful.

Thanks,

Manu
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2019\03\03@184509 by RussellMc

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A cruder mechanical idea than some.
Works OK but may not scale up well :-).

ACW = anticlockwise.
CW = clockwise

Take a strip of fine emery cloth.
Hold target (here xtal) in soft jawed clamp , pins up (usually)..
Wrap cloth around pin in about 180 degree arc with eg ACW outer strip of
cloth just touching the other pin.
Draw cloth loop past pin while rotating whole cloth strip clockwise.
Whole loop should describe most of a clockwise turn as one length of clothe
is drawn past pin.

The above has the result of emery cloth touching pin over most of an 180
degree arc at any time and as the whole strip is rotated the whole pin
surface is covered,
eg if the original emery strip is at 0 degree reference angle and if it
ends up at say 270 degree then the pin surface is touched over 180+270 = 90
degrees more than a whole circle in a single pass.

In practice wrap is under 180 degress and strip rotation in one pull is
under 270 degree BUT you c an cover about one full pin surface in a simgle
pull - with practice.
Repeat for other pin.

Coarseness of emery and pressure applied affects results.


       Russell


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2019\03\04@002559 by John Ferrell

face
flavicon
face
In my part of the world I would take them to a local ammunition loader and have him tumble them like used brass casings. probably over night in a crushed walnut shell medium. Very gentle very clean.

On 3/3/2019 1:52 AM, Manu Abraham wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have this large bag of through-hole standard crystals, which have
> their pins oxidized, since the bag was left open for a while and thus
> solderability is a big issue.
>
> The crystals are good, just that time has to be spent scraping the
> oxide of the pins which is a waste of time.
>
> Is there a better way to remove the oxide layer other than scraping,
> probably by a chemical process or so ?
>
> Any thoughts ?
>
> Thanks,
> Manu

-- John Ferrell W8CCW
   Julian NC 27283
 It is better to walk alone,
than with a crowd going the wrong direction.
                  --Diane Grant


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2019\03\04@142433 by RussellMc

face picon face
On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 at 18:28, John Ferrell <RemoveMEjferrell13TakeThisOuTspamtriad.rr.com> wrote:

> In my part of the world I would take them to a local ammunition loader
> and have him tumble them like used brass casings. probably over night in
> a crushed walnut shell medium. Very gentle very clean.
>

Note that crystals can be VERY sensitive to mechanical shock.
All 3 suggestions below just-maybe may exceed limits. Just maybe.
Trying a few 1st may be in order.

-  For protection of the bodies you could stack N side by side and run an
adhesive tape around the stack and maybe a foam tape or many turns around
the outside. The leads would be subject to the tumbling action but not the
bodies.

*Getting into the Spirit of Things:*

- Dip leads into an ultrasonic cleaning tank.  Maybe push leads through
holes in perf board and suspend bodies just above surface. This would be
easy and effective if it worked at all.

- Just maybe, simply place crystals in an ultrasonic cleaning tank. I would
definitely try a few first to see if it  destroyed them or affected their
performance.



            Russell
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2019\03\04@180753 by Dwayne Reid

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Hi there, Manu.

I would try tinning the leads with solder and a very active flux.  My flux of choice is Kester AZ-2331 Water-Soluble flux.  This flux is extremely active and must be washed off under running warm water when you are finished.  The flux turns to soap bubbles when hit with warm water and it is safe to flush down the drain.

If that flux doesn't work, you can try acid-based flux as used for soldering copper plumbing pipe.  You would have to find out what cleans that flux - most likely is NOT water.

The Kester AZ-2331 flux has worked wonders with oxidized component leads and switch solder lugs for me.  Your mileage may vary.

dwayne


At 11:52 PM 3/2/2019, Manu Abraham wrote:
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-- Dwayne Reid   <spamBeGonedwaynerspamBeGonespamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
780-489-3199 voice   780-487-6397 fax   888-489-3199 Toll Free
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

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2019\03\04@190620 by Bob Blick

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When I had a huge project that required a LOT of solder(100 pounds) and dirty sheet metal, I used dilute swimming pool acid for flux. I think I settled on about a 10 to 1 water to acid mix, maybe a little stronger. Only strong enough that it bubbles a little. Rinse with water immediately after soldering, although the soldering process seemed to neutralize the acid everwhere it got to soldering temperature. A gallon goes a long way, I still have plenty left over! Also good for removing galvanizing from steel prior to welding at about 2 to 1 mix.
Cheerful regards, Bob

________________________________________
From: TakeThisOuTpiclist-bouncesEraseMEspamspam_OUTmit.edu <RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu> on behalf of Dwayne Reid <dwaynerEraseMEspam.....planet.eon.net>
Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:06 PM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: [EE] oxidized pins

Hi there, Manu.

I would try tinning the leads with solder and a very active flux.  My
flux of choice is Kester AZ-2331 Water-Soluble flux.  This flux is
extremely active and must be washed off under running warm water when
you are finished.  The flux turns to soap bubbles when hit with warm
water and it is safe to flush down the drain.

If that flux doesn't work, you can try acid-based flux as used for
soldering copper plumbing pipe.  You would have to find out what
cleans that flux - most likely is NOT water.

The Kester AZ-2331 flux has worked wonders with oxidized component
leads and switch solder lugs for me.  Your mileage may vary.

dwayne


At 11:52 PM 3/2/2019, Manu Abraham wrote:
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--
Dwayne Reid   <EraseMEdwaynerspamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
780-489-3199 voice   780-487-6397 fax   888-489-3199 Toll Free
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

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2019\03\04@220013 by Ryan O'Connor

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Yep acid is one of those magic bullets for getting crap off metal. It's
just messy.. I use hydrochloric acid for everything, a bath of it eats
thick rust off tools in a few minutes - don't get it on your skin or
breathe it. Also interesting fact: acid doesn't just etch oxide off metal,
it will etch the metal itself too. So you need to control the period of
time it soaks in the acid depending on the approx. thickness of the oxide
layer and strength of the acid so as not to damage the structure of the
metal. Usually when the reaction has completed enough, washing it in water
dilutes it enough to stop the reaction. But on components it may be better
to just apply plain solder after the reaction dies down, being careful of
spitting, before any oxide has time to form again. Usually if I do this
with tools I will dry them with paper towels and after a few minutes spray
them with a rust inhibitor.

Ryan

On Tue, 5 Mar 2019 at 13:08, Bob Blick <RemoveMEbobblickEraseMEspamEraseMEoutlook.com> wrote:

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2019\03\05@000452 by RussellMc

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On Tue, 5 Mar 2019 at 16:03, Ryan O'Connor <rocifierSTOPspamspamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:

> ..... I use hydrochloric acid for everything, a bath of it eats
> thick rust off tools in a few minutes - don't get it on your skin or
> breathe it...


.... or pour it all over your face and in your eyes.

Ask me how I know :-).

Long ago, not my fault, ... .

Blindingish pain. Strongest 'lemon juice like' taste I ever did taste.
VERY fast blind stumble for nearest tap.
Long copious water wash out.
Mo apparent permanent damage.
If it had been sulphuric :-) ...

_________________

Metals.

HCL + most metals* = metal chloride + Hydrogen.
Good for nice controlled balloon inflation with sheet or granulated Zinc.
Zinc powder "not recommended". (Faaaaaaaaaaaast). Ask me how .... :-)


       Russell

_________________________

* Probably not with metallic Hydrogen  - but addition of aqueous liquid HCL
to metallic Hydrogen would no doubt be 'interesting'.




        Russell



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2019\03\07@035039 by Sean Breheny

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Hydrochloric acid may be the right thing for very heavily corroded metal
but I would use it as a last resort because the etching action that you
describe often leaves the surface of the metal pitted at a microscopic
level which greatly increases the surface area and will allow future
oxidation to happen much more quickly. In other words, you should tin the
metal asap after the acid etch (and rinse with water) to provide a
protective coating.

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2019\03\07@050811 by Peter

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We use the following flux,

https://www.mektronics.com.au/multicore-x33-08i-no-clean-flux-1l.html

It works very well on poor solder ability pcb's and/or components etc.

Hope this helps

Peter

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On 4/03/2019 2:24 am, Manu Abraham wrote:
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