Just to say when I was in Amsterdam I went to the tourist info bureau in front of the Train Station and they were great for finding me lodging etc.
And in Amsterdam you will be very surprised out how many languages people speak. English, French, German and Dutch seem to be spoken by quite a few people. I was very impressed by this. Once you leave the city core it is no longer the case however.
It is a very tourist driven city, and they cater well to tourist.
Michael:
Thank you for the information. I will only be in Amsterdam to get
organized. Then I must travel from there. I am sure that the tourist bureau
is a good resource. Thank you.
Regards,
Richard
They can find you lodging anywhere in the country pretty much.
It's also nice to go through them because the other side of amsterdam (and a lot of the big cities in Europe) are the scam artist that prey on tourist.
Pick pockets, people who get paid to bring you to less than diserable lodging etc.
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 12/2/2003 at 8:06 AM Richard Graziano wrote:
>Michael:
>Thank you for the information. I will only be in Amsterdam to get
>organized. Then I must travel from there. I am sure that the tourist
>bureau
>is a good resource. Thank you.
>Regards,
>Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael J. Pawlowsky"
Subject: Re: [OT:] Looking for Amsrerdam Dwellers
> And in Amsterdam you will be very surprised out how many
> languages people speak. English, French, German and Dutch
> seem to be spoken by quite a few people. I was very impressed
> by this. Once you leave the city core it is no longer the case
> however.
Although this tends to be somewhat true in other countries, in the
Netherlands, virtually everyone speaks fluent Dutch, German, English and
French. Most Dutch people don't like to speak French, and quite a few are
uncomfortable with English. In my experience, those that are uncomfortable
with English usually speak the best English!
I mention this because in the Netherlands, many people will be insulted by
your asking whether they speak English. Only the very old might not speak
English ... nowadays that has to be someone in their 80's ... or someone
totally uneducated, most likely immigrated from somewhere else. In Germany
or France it would only be an ugly American who would presume that everyone
spoke English, but it's quite different in the Netherlands. Kids are
brought up on American TV shows, and the Dutch feel that dubbing movies is
just stupid. They know John Wayne doesn't speak Dutch!
Once I went to a co-worker's house for dinner, and his 2 year old daughter
insisted I read her this book. It was pretty simple, picture of animals
with Dutch names. As I desparately tried to pronounce these Dutch animal
names, the 4 year old brother explained the English names for the animals to
me, in case I didn't get it.
More difficult than the language is the culture. The Dutch, particularly in
Utrecht and the Hollands, are astonishingly candid. They tend to view the
American practice of weighing one's words as a bit dishonest. Although they
recognize this as part of American culture, their directness can be a bit
disturbing. Most will tell you exactly what is on their mind with zero
filtering. Recognize they are not being rude, just honest.
There is also an amazing difference in culture across the country. While a
Hollander will tell you more than you ever wanted to know, a Zeelander will
be quite private. So it's best to be a little careful before diving in, but
recognize that people expect a degree of honesty that you don't find in
Rochester.
It is a wonderful place, though. Been a while since I've been there ... I
miss it.
> Although this tends to be somewhat true in other countries, in the
> Netherlands, virtually everyone speaks fluent Dutch, German,
> English and French.
I'd scrap French from that list, and add that speaking German is a bit
hazardous, both from the animosity inherent in the Dutch-German
relationship (including, in no particular order, a world war and a lost
footbal final) and from the misleading similarity between the two
languages (I recall asking for a place to put my tent in a German
speaking region of Belgium: "gibt es ein platz fur kampfen?".
> They know John Wayne doesn't speak Dutch!
We often have a good laugh at war movies from the German stations where
the tommies speak german, or US movies where a wehrmacht officer speaks
american. The James bond movies seem to get it right most of the time:
the KGB officers speak something that at least sounds like russian.
> They tend to view the
> American practice of weighing one's words as a bit dishonest.
I don't know which country Olin is from, but imagine a country filled
with his kind and you will be prepared on the safe side :)
You might read the book "the undutchables". You can buy it in every
bookshop on Schiphol airport.
> There is also an amazing difference in culture across the country.
Most of that is history, unless you happen to go to one of the funny
patches of localness that remain.
Thank you for the insight, John. I am looking for help locating some
businesses in the area. I really need to talk with someone who actually
lives in the area. Unfortunately, it is not a holiday trip.
<snip>
>
> Once I went to a co-worker's house for dinner, and his 2 year old daughter
> insisted I read her this book. It was pretty simple, picture of animals
> with Dutch names. As I desparately tried to pronounce these Dutch animal
> names, the 4 year old brother explained the English names for the animals to
> me, in case I didn't get it.
Yeah. A German friend of mine had a 6 year old son who spoke English well. I know
Americans that can't speak English. American English, that is.
"Do he have..." "Her can't have..." "Liberry" "Warsh" ferchrissakes! My favorite...
"Shit! Listen to you. You be talkin' 'bout me be talking." Imagine two guys in the mess
hall laughing a mouthful of food through their noses.
>
> More difficult than the language is the culture. The Dutch, particularly in
> Utrecht and the Hollands, are astonishingly candid. They tend to view the
> American practice of weighing one's words as a bit dishonest.
I'm American and I view it as downright pussified, insulting, ass-kissing, and a few
other choice adjectives. I'd love to go back to Germany for a long vacation and I'd
definitely need to do the Netherlands. I think I'd like those Dutch people. My Head
Start (ARMY orientation to FRD) teacher was from Holland. I really liked her. Said
what was on her mind, brooked no bs, and was still a lady.
> Although they
> recognize this as part of American culture, their directness can be a bit
> disturbing. Most will tell you exactly what is on their mind with zero
> filtering. Recognize they are not being rude, just honest.
My kind of people.
>
> There is also an amazing difference in culture across the country. While a
> Hollander will tell you more than you ever wanted to know, a Zeelander will
> be quite private. So it's best to be a little careful before diving in, but
> recognize that people expect a degree of honesty that you don't find in
> Rochester.
I'll remember that if I ever go to Rochester :-) I usually expect to have to glean more
from what's NOT said than from was actually IS said, anyway, so I should be OK.
Hope the guy looking into that "Securities" company has it together. If he's contacted
them and they know he's coming, I wouldn't be surprised if they keep an eye on him
from the time he gets off the plane. Sounds like Bourbon Street and the French
Quarter where you need eyes behind your head.
>
> It is a wonderful place, though. Been a while since I've been there ... I
> miss it.
I met a few retaard ARMY NCOs in FRD. They didn't stay there because someone
twisted their arm.
There is a point (question, actually) to this post, Wouter, but I couldn't resist a few
comments.
> (getting totally OT)
OT from the OTT :-)
>
> > Although this tends to be somewhat true in other countries, in the
> > Netherlands, virtually everyone speaks fluent Dutch, German,
> > English and French.
>
> I'd scrap French
We did.
<snip>
>
> > They know John Wayne doesn't speak Dutch!
I used to get a kick out of the Duke with German voice-over.
"Enshuldigen (sp?) Sie, bitte, " in this squeeky unmanly voice-over.
That would be, "Howdy, pardner."
>
> We often have a good laugh at war movies from the German stations where
> the tommies speak german, or US movies where a wehrmacht officer speaks
> american. The James bond movies seem to get it right most of the time:
> the KGB officers speak something that at least sounds like russian.
Lot of Bond on the tube here lately. Original James. Octopussy and all.
>
> > They tend to view the
> > American practice of weighing one's words as a bit dishonest.
>
> I don't know which country Olin is from, but imagine a country filled
> with his kind and you will be prepared on the safe side :)
Massa2shits if I'm not mistaken. I did some EE for a guy from Maulden, MA, which is
near Boston. They don't mince words. They're descended from the original
Decalaration of Independence rebels. Lots of history there. And southerners think
Yankees ain't rebels.
>
> You might read the book "the undutchables". You can buy it in every
> bookshop on Schiphol airport.
hmm...
>
> > There is also an amazing difference in culture across the country.
That'll do.
>
> Most of that is history, unless you happen to go to one of the funny
> patches of localness that remain.
Those "out in the sticks" gasthauses were nice. I really liked the one with the (what I
was later told is) a beauty salon clock. I'm waiting for a girl. She's late. BTW. No one
mentioned this... Isn't it customary for the Dutch to be late?
Anyway. The second time I looked at the clock, I thought, "Something's FUBAR
here." Sure enough, the clock was backwards. The girl was still late ( for the date, )
but she showed.
What I wanted to ask, Wouter... How the hell do you pronounce your name? I can
only take a stab at it and my Brittanica Languare Dictionaries are not here. Even
then, I might foul it up. Could you put a quick .wav or mp3 on your site like Bjorne
Stroustroup did?
mitvma.mit.edu
