Post by thread:[OT]: Inflateable wing aeroplane

Reminds me of the old "Puffer Kite" - a toy kite that you inflated. I wonder how long it would take to deflate if an angry bird pecked it? Its been known to happen. I've read an account (somewhere on the net) of a hang glider pilot that would take bread crumbs to feed the vultures he would play with, some of which would peck holes in his big, slow bird wings 8^) Personaly, I prever bats. Scott **************************************************************** Freedom is pursuing your carrot, not running from a stick. The mob only rules what its members are allowed to achieve. How is it we Americans have become so enlightened to elect our President and Senate by a popular vote, yet are so irresponsible, our right to our guns must be restricted and constantly redefined? A student who could bring a loaded rifle to a public school gun club is now expelled for even so much as drawing a picture! Quo Bono - Who Profits! **************************************************************** {Original Message removed}

Peter L. Peres wrote: > I am quite sure that something with inflatable wings flew. Quite some time > ago. I saw photos (two) in a magazine. I cannot remember the year and the > magazine but it was there. They had a proper report on it. Right. Rogallo-wings, so-called. Been around since the 50's - Maybe earlier. Ballyhooed for re-entry vehicles. regards, Jack -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email .....listservKILLspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

I think the main difference is that this uses fully self supporting wings at about 250 psi whereas early designs had lower pressure (say 20 psi) for shape but needed strut or cable supports. Russell McMahon _____________________________ > >I am quite sure that something with inflatable wings flew. Quite some time > >ago. I saw photos (two) in a magazine. I cannot remember the year and the > >magazine but it was there. They had a proper report on it. > > > >Peter > > Look for the GoodYear Inflate-O-Plane, I think this was a WW2 era design. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList .....piclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspam.....mitvma.mit.edu

Goodyear flew a couple of experimental airplanes about 40 years ago. One of the test pilots has described an interesting time when one of the craft developed a slow leak while in flight. Jim Peter L. Peres wrote: > > inflatable wing > > I am quite sure that something with inflatable wings flew. Quite some time > ago. I saw photos (two) in a magazine. I cannot remember the year and the > magazine but it was there. They had a proper report on it. > > Peter -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList EraseMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspam_OUTTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu

Visions... Why not go all the way and make inflateable microlight aircraft ? Built into a standard leather briefcase, a small jet (controlled by a PIC of course) as power source ? With a proper wing one could do with about 6Hp. The trick is to take off, so how about this: At the end of the day you go to the roof of the office building. Open your briefcase, sit in it and fasten your seatbelt. Pull a ripcord and POOF you are flung into the air, the jet turbine starts and you are on your way home - tie flapping like the Red Baron's scarf. I would love to watch the skyline of New York at 5PM.... Kent On a more serious note - has any of you heard of other people's experiments with small jets with catalytic combustion ? I have experimented a little - if you put a fine meshed net in the burner chamber (platinum coated) the fuel burns at a lower temperature. This gives higher mass flow, so you can lower the speed of the air, maintaining the Re number. And since noise is proportional to V^4 you get a very quiet turbine. {Quote hidden}> Goodyear flew a couple of experimental airplanes about 40 years ago. One of > the test pilots has described an interesting time when one of the craft > developed a slow leak while in flight. > > Jim > > Peter L. Peres wrote: > > > > inflatable wing > > > > I am quite sure that something with inflatable wings flew. Quite some time > > ago. I saw photos (two) in a magazine. I cannot remember the year and the > > magazine but it was there. They had a proper report on it. > > > > Peter > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList > piclist-unsubscribe-requestspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu > > > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList @spam@piclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspammitvma.mit.edu

At 09:00 AM 6/25/01 -0700, Martin Baker wrote: >I am just starting to read this thread, but you might want to look up the >Intoya Firebird, a one man helicopter powered by Hydrogen peroxide which is >fed to a platinum coated mesh catalyst. No electrical system. Water and >oxygen as the ehaust, high thrust, very cheap to build. In case of a crash, did they mention that concentrated peroxide dissolves skin quite nicely? -- Dave's Engineering Page: http://www.dvanhorn.org I would have a link to http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?KC6ETE-9 here in my signature line, but due to the inability of sysadmins at TELOCITY to differentiate a signature line from the text of an email, I am forbidden to have it. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu

On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, David VanHorn wrote: > At 09:00 AM 6/25/01 -0700, Martin Baker wrote: > >I am just starting to read this thread, but you might want to look up the > >Intoya Firebird, a one man helicopter powered by Hydrogen peroxide which is > >fed to a platinum coated mesh catalyst. No electrical system. Water and > >oxygen as the ehaust, high thrust, very cheap to build. > > In case of a crash, did they mention that concentrated peroxide dissolves > skin quite nicely? I think any propellant used in aviation will do a number on you after a crash. I had occasion to be in a Cessna 172 when, immediately after takeoff, the aircraft decided that it really, really wanted to do a steep banked climbing right turn. Steep like a snap roll. As the pilot (thank God I was not the one flying that day) fought to try to keep it airborne, I contemplated the effects of the 80 or so gallons of 110 octane avgas directly overhead. I did not find it to be a terribly comforting thought considering the lack of soft or flat places to land ahead of us. Turned out to be a poorly wired autopilot disengage button on the yoke. The moral of the story: Always ask if the aircraft has recently had avionics work done. If it's just come out of the shop rent something else. Dale -- A train stops at a train station. A bus stops at a bus station. On my desk I have a workstation... -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList spamBeGonepiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu

ames R. Cunningham wrote: > > Rogallos are not inflatable. This one was. >Rogallo designed a wing supported by a longitudinal > center spar and two leading edge spars usually having an interior angle of 127 > degrees or thereabouts. Camber is developed by the pressure jump between the > upper and lower surface, but it is not internally inflated. Sounds right. This thing was more parachute than airplane. Have also seen inflatable motorized hang-gliders, more or less. Darwin Award stuff, IMHO... regards, Jack -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList TakeThisOuTpiclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu

Listen up! You guys should stop posting me OT topics like this. I am trying to do some serious work here and you keep on interfering my train of thought with web pages like this, causing me to go check it out and then I start thinking about other things. So please stop sending me posts like this. ;-) Octavio, a couple of weeks ago the discussion about H2O2 rockets was on the list with links. search the archives for more info. Quentin Kevin Olalde wrote: > > Try: > > http://www.intora-firebird.com/intro.htm > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList EraseMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestmitvma.mit.edu

At 11:14 AM 6/25/01 -0500, you wrote: >At 09:00 AM 6/25/01 -0700, Martin Baker wrote: >>I am just starting to read this thread, but you might want to look up the >>Intoya Firebird, a one man helicopter powered by Hydrogen peroxide which is >>fed to a platinum coated mesh catalyst. No electrical system. Water and >>oxygen as the ehaust, high thrust, very cheap to build. > >In case of a crash, did they mention that concentrated peroxide dissolves >skin quite nicely? > >-- >Dave's Engineering Page: http://www.dvanhorn.org Some of us on the list even worked on the prototype "Firebird" in Texas and survived...... ;-] Dave -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu

> I am just starting to read this thread, but you might want to look up > the Intoya Firebird, a one man helicopter powered by Hydrogen peroxide > which is fed to a platinum coated mesh catalyst. No electrical system. > Water and oxygen as the ehaust, high thrust, very cheap to build. Uhh. I don't know much about hydrogen peroxide except that in high concentration it is about as nice as LOX, only more touchy. I also know about the Walther cycle steam turbine which used peroxide+catalyst to generate oxygen and steam and then burned fuel in the oxygen to make more superheated steam which then drove a turbine. Does that helicopter burn the oxygen ? And where do you buy 80% peroxide ? Not at the pharmacy I guess. Is there a reference on the Intoya Firebird ? Peter -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

Peter L. Peres wrote: > Uhh. I don't know much about hydrogen peroxide except that in high > concentration it is about as nice as LOX, only more touchy. I also know > about the Walther cycle steam turbine which used peroxide+catalyst to > generate oxygen and steam and then burned fuel in the oxygen to make > more superheated steam which then drove a turbine. I gather there has been a renewal of interest in such schemes for underwater propulsion systems. More hang time than diesel electrics, potentially very quiet, much cheaper than nukes. Jack -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

> > I am just starting to read this thread, but you might want to look up > > the Intoya Firebird, a one man helicopter powered by Hydrogen peroxide > > which is fed to a platinum coated mesh catalyst. No electrical system. > > Water and oxygen as the ehaust, high thrust, very cheap to build. > > Uhh. I don't know much about hydrogen peroxide except that in high > concentration it is about as nice as LOX, only more touchy. I also know > about the Walther cycle steam turbine which used peroxide+catalyst to > generate oxygen and steam and then burned fuel in the oxygen to make > more superheated steam which then drove a turbine. Does that helicopter > burn the oxygen ? And where do you buy 80% peroxide ? Not at the pharmacy > I guess. This is definitely in the "don't try this at home without lots more information" class but - You can buy 50% peroxide fairly easily in most cases. This is relatively easily able to be concentrated to 80 to 90% by simple low cost techniques. HP has its handling problems and you can kill yourself with it if you don't try not to. Silver coated screens are the traditional catalyst and for this the HP is limited to 85% concentration as temperature of decomposition relates to concentration and the screens melt above this. Using other catalysts you can use eg 98% HP and people do. As a monopropellant rocket fuel it is not marvellous (Isp under 200) but it is one of the more maneagable comopropellants all things considered. Project Mercury used it for thrusters but they went to Hydrazine thrusters from Gemini on. The first Me163 rocket plane used a Walther HP engine. The later version used HP plus a multicomponent fuel to increase power (Isp) substantially. John Carmack of Doom/Quake fame is running a team who are developing an HP powered manned vertical takeoff and landing "rocket ship". Russell McMahon -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

At 01:51 PM 6/27/01 +1200, you wrote: >This is definitely in the "don't try this at home without lots more >information" class but - >You can buy 50% peroxide fairly easily in most cases. This is relatively >easily able to be concentrated to 80 to 90% by simple low cost techniques. >HP has its handling problems and you can kill yourself with it if you don't >try not to. Since HP generates no pollution and can be stored in certain conditions without risk of combustion, it is one of the more manageable oxidizers. I think that many people miss the point that it is not where it can be bought that matters, but that in can be made at point of use fairly easily. Imagine if your fueling stations for a hybrid motor vehicle generated their own fuel, thereby eliminating the need for tanker trucks? An example might be an aircraft style radial engine, with the braking function driving boith a generator and an air compressor to pressurize the H2O2 tank? The exhaust would be water and O2, which if captured could be fed intop the system for regenerating the H2O2. The catalyst is the big hangup here, but there are other catalysts...some derviative of reaney nickel with a touch of carbon might work.... Just a thought experiment, but ait is definitely a box worth thinking outside of, considering our dependence on vehicular transport... imagine if you will a rocket powered bicycle.... hee hee...:> Martin {Quote hidden}>Silver coated screens are the traditional catalyst and for this the HP is >limited to 85% concentration as temperature of decomposition relates to >concentration and the screens melt above this. Using other catalysts you can >use eg 98% HP and people do. As a monopropellant rocket fuel it is not >marvellous (Isp under 200) but it is one of the more maneagable >comopropellants all things considered. Project Mercury used it for thrusters >but they went to Hydrazine thrusters from Gemini on. > >The first Me163 rocket plane used a Walther HP engine. The later version >used HP plus a multicomponent fuel to increase power (Isp) substantially. > >John Carmack of Doom/Quake fame is running a team who are developing an HP >powered manned vertical takeoff and landing "rocket ship". > > > Russell McMahon > >-- >http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics >(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics