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'[OT] Engineer - in whatever langauge,was - Where h'
2009\04\06@090557 by Alan B. Pearce

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>In my country (Netherlands) 'ingenieur' (sounds like engineer,
>but is definitely not the same) ...

I am intrigued by this term, and would like to understand just what the
difference is between 'ingenieur' and 'engineer'.

My interest arises from seeing (mostly German) people with 'Dip Ing.' after
their name, and figuring they had the equivalent of a Bachelor of
Engineering, and a loop that the Märklin model railway company went through,
with producing a line of equipment, and training programs under the label
'Train-ing' which I thought would give in a clever translation to English as

Would appreciate any insight given.

2009\04\06@105025 by Alan B. Pearce

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>I believe the Germany Dip Ing is equivalent Master of Science in
>other countries. At least that is what I was told last time by my
>German colleagues.

OK, thanks Wouter and Xiaofan for those insights.

2009\04\06@122708 by Alan B. Pearce

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>This sounds very similar to how my family describes the system in
>Austria. The closest equivalent to "engineer" there is called something
>like a "Diplom Inginer" (sp?), basically "Diploma Engineer". It's not
>exactly the same as in North America, but comes close enough for most

This is what I see against German qualifications, 'Dip Ing', and from what I
can make out from Wouters description, and the Wikipedia link that Xiaofan
gave, it seems to be a cross between a bachelors, and a Masters degree.

2009\04\09@192403 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Xiaofan Chen wrote:

> I believe the Germany Dip Ing ...

FWIW, it's "Dipl.-Ing.".

> ... is equivalent Master of Science in other countries.

The one that is considered (maybe almost) equivalent to the MS used to
be the only one with this title, but since a few years now it has become
"Dipl.-Ing. (Univ.)", to make the distinction that this title comes from
a university.

> Those graduated from Technical Universities is equivalent to Bachelor
> in other countries but I believe they do not get Dip Ing.

Once they didn't get the "Dipl.-Ing." (they got a "Ing. (grad.)"), but
for a while now they do, and what they get is "Dipl.-Ing. (FH)". "FH"
indicates that this isn't a degree from a general university, but rather
from a technical university.

The FH education is generally considered to be more practically
oriented, with less theoretical background. But there are also a number
of more subtle differences, e.g. one of the requirements for entering
university is a certain number of credits in two foreign languages,
whereas for a FH only one foreign language is required.

> This may help as well.

The description for Germany on this page doesn't reflect the German
traditional system. It seems that there is a change going on due to the
Bologna Process to approach
what's described on this page, but I'm not sure how far this has come.

I'm also not sure whether the new system is actually better (as Alan
seems to indicate by saying that there is something "against" the older
German qualifications). IMO it's just different...

In reality, in over 25 years I don't think anybody ever looked at my
degree. Without actually looking at what courses I took and how well I
did, just the degree itself doesn't say much. So I'm not sure how
important it is what the degree says about my qualifications :)


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