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PICList Thread
'[OT] Firefox feature reqest discussion: Stop butto'
2009\03\30@130515 by Peter

picon face
I have a problem with the Firefox browser's "feature" that causes pages which
were stopped from loading completely (by clicking the Stop button) to still run
and trigger JavaScript and HTML reload events. This causes complex pages that
can temporarily freeze the browser to try to reload (and repaint) periodically.
Multiply this by 6-10 open tabs and obtain a totally non-responsive system. Am I
the only one having this gripe ? Opinions ?

Posted here because it is likely of general interest to advanced computer users,
as most of the members of this mailing list likely are. IE also does the same
(keep reloading after a time in despite of the Stop button being pressed), but
that is not of interest to me.

thanks,
Peter

2009\03\30@145436 by Neil Cherry

flavicon
face
Peter wrote:
> I have a problem with the Firefox browser's "feature" that causes pages which
> were stopped from loading completely (by clicking the Stop button) to still run
> and trigger JavaScript and HTML reload events. This causes complex pages that
> can temporarily freeze the browser to try to reload (and repaint) periodically.
> Multiply this by 6-10 open tabs and obtain a totally non-responsive system. Am I
> the only one having this gripe ? Opinions ?
>
> Posted here because it is likely of general interest to advanced computer users,
> as most of the members of this mailing list likely are. IE also does the same
> (keep reloading after a time in despite of the Stop button being pressed), but
> that is not of interest to me.
>
> thanks,
> Peter
>

As a general rule, I hit escape (<ESC>) twice to stop pages from
reloading. May not work all the time but it does for most pages.

--
Linux Home Automation         Neil Cherry       spam_OUTncherryTakeThisOuTspamlinuxha.com
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http://linuxha.blogspot.com/                    My HA Blog
Author of:            Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

2009\03\30@152211 by Peter

picon face
Neil Cherry <ncherry <at> linuxha.com> writes:
> As a general rule, I hit escape (<ESC>) twice to stop pages from

Do you have a pointer to an explanatory url for this shortcut ?

thanks,

 Peter

2009\03\30@173649 by Rolf

face picon face
Peter wrote:
> Neil Cherry <ncherry <at> linuxha.com> writes:
>  
>> As a general rule, I hit escape (<ESC>) twice to stop pages from
>>    
>
> Do you have a pointer to an explanatory url for this shortcut ?
>
> thanks,
>
>   Peter
>
>  
http://diveintomark.org/archives/2007/02/08/howto-block-meta-refresh

but not for esc-esc

Rolf

2009\03\30@185039 by Neil Cherry

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face
Peter wrote:
> Neil Cherry <ncherry <at> linuxha.com> writes:
>> As a general rule, I hit escape (<ESC>) twice to stop pages from
>
> Do you have a pointer to an explanatory url for this shortcut ?
>
> thanks,
>
>   Peter

Nope, it's just what I'm used to using. I probably learned to
use it during the Mosaic days.

--
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http://linuxha.blogspot.com/                    My HA Blog
Author of:            Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

2009\03\31@092207 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> Nope, it's just what I'm used to using. I probably learned to
> use it during the Mosaic days.

These are (still) the Mosaic days :-).
Just getting harder to notice.

Hmmm. MAY have gone at last.
IE7. Help About.
Nothing obvious.
No mention of the Regents of the University of wherever.
Sad.



R

2009\03\31@105124 by Neil Cherry

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Russell McMahon wrote:
>> Nope, it's just what I'm used to using. I probably learned to
>> use it during the Mosaic days.
>
> These are (still) the Mosaic days :-).
> Just getting harder to notice.

That's an understatement, I wonder if MS paid of the Regents.

In a few years I doubt many will understand the reference.

--
Linux Home Automation         Neil Cherry       ncherryspamKILLspamlinuxha.com
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http://linuxha.blogspot.com/                    My HA Blog
Author of:            Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

2009\03\31@194217 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Neil Cherry <.....ncherryKILLspamspam.....linuxha.com> wrote:
> Russell McMahon wrote:
>>> Nope, it's just what I'm used to using. I probably learned to
>>> use it during the Mosaic days.
>>
>> These are (still) the Mosaic days :-).
>> Just getting harder to notice.
>
> That's an understatement, I wonder if MS paid of the Regents.
>
> In a few years I doubt many will understand the reference.
>

I believe the Mosaic code has long gone since IE 4 (Trident engine
instead of Spyglass Mosaic).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer

Regards,
Xiaofan

2009\03\31@211303 by Richard Prosser

picon face
> I believe the Mosaic code has long gone since IE 4 (Trident engine
> instead of Spyglass Mosaic).
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer
>
> Regards,
> Xiaofan


Copied/pasted directly from IE6:-

"Based on NCSA Mosaic. NCSA Mosaic(TM); was developed at the National
Center for Supercomputing Applications at the University of Illinois
at Urbana-Champaign."

But IE7 doesn't mention it.

RP

2009\03\31@215654 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Richard Prosser <EraseMErhprosserspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:
>> I believe the Mosaic code has long gone since IE 4 (Trident engine
>> instead of Spyglass Mosaic).
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer
>>
>> Regards,
>> Xiaofan
>
>
> Copied/pasted directly from IE6:-
>
> "Based on NCSA Mosaic. NCSA Mosaic(TM); was developed at the National
> Center for Supercomputing Applications at the University of Illinois
> at Urbana-Champaign."
>
> But IE7 doesn't mention it.

I see. I was running IE8 at home.But I see the above at work since
we are still using IE6.

Xiaofan

2009\03\31@222513 by Richard Prosser

picon face
Xiaofan

What's IE8 like - I'm using Firefox & IE6 mostly (IE7 at home if I
have to use IE).

Richard

2009/4/1 Xiaofan Chen <xiaofancspamspam_OUTgmail.com>:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2009\03\31@232213 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:25 AM, Richard Prosser <KILLspamrhprosserKILLspamspamgmail.com> wrote:
> What's IE8 like - I'm using Firefox & IE6 mostly (IE7 at home if I
> have to use IE).

So far so good. IE7 is good. IE8 seems to be no worse. I use Firefox as
well under Linux and Windows.

All in all, IE7/8 are much better than IE6. Firefox is sometimes better,
sometimes worse. Under Linux you have to use Firefox. And it is
still the most often used and most often crashed program for
me under Linux (Ubuntu). It does not seem to crash under
Windows at least for me.

Xiaofan


'[OT] Firefox feature reqest discussion: Stop butto'
2009\04\01@031019 by Tamas Rudnai
face picon face
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 4:22 AM, Xiaofan Chen <RemoveMExiaofancTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com> wrote:

> All in all, IE7/8 are much better than IE6. Firefox is sometimes better,
> sometimes worse. Under Linux you have to use Firefox. And it is
> still the most often used and most often crashed program for
> me under Linux (Ubuntu). It does not seem to crash under
> Windows at least for me.
>

I am using (almost) only FF in both Win and Linux. On Linux there is an
annoying problem on sites with active content - like reading Gmail, and want
to scroll down with the mouse wheel, and is sloooow - I mean really slow,
until the ad and the label boxes scrolled out of the screen. There are other
sites with the similar problem, altough there everything is fine with the
Windows version. I have not found any solution for that yet.

Tamas
--
http://www.mcuhobby.com

2009\04\01@034625 by Richard Prosser

picon face
Tamas,

Have you tried using the AdblockFirefox  extension? I use Seamonkey or
Skipstone (both using the gecko engine, (same as Firefox) on Linux and
haven't noticed this problem.

Or can you change the sensitivity of the mouse wheel? There are
settings for the mousewheel if you browse to the "about:config"
window. I'm not sure if there's a sensitivity setting that you can
adjust, but there's all sorts of settings for the wheel. Sometimes you
may have to add a new text string. A google search may provide a fix.

Richard


2009/4/1 Tamas Rudnai <spamBeGonetamas.rudnaispamBeGonespamgmail.com>:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2009\04\01@035151 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Tamas Rudnai <RemoveMEtamas.rudnaispamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:
> I am using (almost) only FF in both Win and Linux. On Linux there is an
> annoying problem on sites with active content - like reading Gmail, and want
> to scroll down with the mouse wheel, and is sloooow - I mean really slow,
> until the ad and the label boxes scrolled out of the screen. There are other
> sites with the similar problem, altough there everything is fine with the
> Windows version. I have not found any solution for that yet.

If that is the only problem for you, try adblock/flashblock/noscript or similar.
Firefox can be slow sometimes. And sometimes it does not exit properly.
I have to use "kill" or even "kill -9".

Gmail is slow for me from time to time no matter which browser I
use.

BTW, I found one thing much worse than Firefox under Fedora 10,
which is PackageKit. Very annoying. I have to remove it and use
Yumex instead. I am not so sure why Fedora does not have something
like Synaptic and try to invent something new. At least PClinux
can use apt with RPM. Yum/Yumex are also not bad.

Xiaofan

2009\04\01@044354 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
Richard and Xiaofan,

The main problem is not with the ad, there are other sites that are behaving
like this without a singe ad - but only under Linux, no problem on Windows.
There is something with the script engine I think (maybe there are some
other rendering issues as well).

Here are some of the related topic:

bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/217580
bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=413280
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=424423

Tamas



On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Xiaofan Chen <xiaofancEraseMEspam.....gmail.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> -

2009\04\01@130942 by Peter

picon face
Tamas Rudnai <tamas.rudnai <at> gmail.com> writes:
> There is something with the script engine I think (maybe there are some
> other rendering issues as well).

It all goes back to developers testing the JavaScript insufficiently on 'other'
platforms. Due to JavaScript implementation incompatibility a working JavaScript
function written for windows can become a denial-of-service type resource hog on
other platforms, in the form of an endless loop with high resource utilization
or other coding horrors. The fact that JavaScript mostly continues by default
instead of stopping on errors in a program (consistent with the potentially
human-deadly 'ignore unknown tags' policy in plain html) does not help here.

The short version: sufficiently compatible sites which are tested for
cross-browser compatibility with the 4 main broswers: IE, Firefox, Opera and
Safari, work flawlessly, beyond that, it's a bog, and *do* expect to sink in it.

I have been using *nix as a destop for 12 years now and browsers with plugins
and scripting turned on are the *only* applications I have that can require a
session logout and login or even machine freeze + subsequent reboot. Server mode
machines that run the exact same software (but not the browsers, plugins or
'proprietary' media players - who knows what coding horrors lurk in there)
*never* need to be rebooted. Uptimes equal the time between mandatory kernel
updates or upgrades, measured in several months to years.

Old graffiti strategically placed on pub washroom wall comes to mind here to go
with 'input garbage -> output garbage' in computers: 'beer in, beer out'.

Peter


2009\04\02@230321 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:09 AM, Peter <RemoveMEplpeter2006EraseMEspamEraseMEyahoo.com> wrote:
> The short version: sufficiently compatible sites which are tested for
> cross-browser compatibility with the 4 main broswers: IE, Firefox, Opera and
> Safari, work flawlessly, beyond that, it's a bog, and *do* expect to sink in it.
>

I am not sure if I buy this or not. I can tolerate Firefox to pop
up script error under Linux but not crashing or exit disgracefully
even if the cause is the incompatible website or some not-well-written
JavaScript.

Xiaofan

2009\04\05@183047 by Peter

picon face
Xiaofan Chen <xiaofanc <at> gmail.com> writes:
> I am not sure if I buy this or not. I can tolerate Firefox to pop
> up script error under Linux but not crashing or exit disgracefully
> even if the cause is the incompatible website or some not-well-written
> JavaScript.

There is nothing to buy the browsers are all free. A JavaScript equivalent of
an unintentional fork bomb is as bad as any resource exhaustion D.O.S. failure.
The difference can mainly be seen between a system reboot on other platforms and
a simple application shutdown and restart on *nix derivatives (with or without
logout). This has got to do with the amount of 'integration' evangelized by the
respective platform developers, as does the amount of unsaved work destroyed by
such an event. Pick the one that you claim to hurt you least ... in my case
typical browsing means 2-3 browser instances with 15+ tabs open, probably a
third of them datasheets or PDF files with 100+ pages where the exact page is
pretty hard to find again in case of crash. If one goes down it takes all of
them with it. Fortunately Firefox has a 'restore previous session' setting and
I can be back where I was before disaster struck in 60 seconds or so.

There is no single browser that works everywhere, f.ex. I have good luck
trying alternatively Firefox, Opera and IE on certain sites. IE is not the one
that 'usually works', by the way. Also with the latest virus craze I am
reluctant to use IE. Keeping a Windows machine clean of c**p is a full time job
I cannot afford.

For really picky instances it is possible to select resource limitation of any
client applications (such as browsers) on *nix. This is done using quotas. The
result is that a browser crash will not log the session and the window manager
out and will not starve the system of free heap or cpu cycles, such that other
more critical applications will keep running.

Peter


2009\04\05@213946 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 6:30 AM, Peter <RemoveMEplpeter2006spam_OUTspamKILLspamyahoo.com> wrote:
> in my case
> typical browsing means 2-3 browser instances with 15+ tabs open, probably a
> third of them datasheets or PDF files with 100+ pages where the exact page is
> pretty hard to find again in case of crash. If one goes down it takes all of
> them with it. Fortunately Firefox has a 'restore previous session' setting and
> I can be back where I was before disaster struck in 60 seconds or so.

I see. That is taxing Firefox and the OS too much. Typically I do not open
pdf file inside the browser. I know it caused many problems for IE/Firefox.
I do not open many tabs (normally less than 6). I do not open too many
programs under Windows (normally less than 6).

Firefox sometimes does not exit properly and I need to use "kill -9"
under Linux.

Xiaofan

2009\04\08@174728 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
Just downloaded 64bit version of Ubuntu 8.10 and booted up from the live CD.
I was so surprised, but it seems that the FireFox works great, there is no
slowness on Gmail nor on other sites...

Is anybody has an experience on 64 bit version of Ubuntu (or other distros)?
Is there any stability or incompatibly issues? I mean as far as I know it is
still possible to run 32 bit applications if the 32 bit libraries are
installed, but is there any issues with those? What about drivers,
especially the proprietary nVidia one?

Thanks
Tamas


On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 1:39 AM, Xiaofan Chen <RemoveMExiaofancTakeThisOuTspamspamgmail.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> -

2009\04\08@195030 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 5:47 AM, Tamas Rudnai <RemoveMEtamas.rudnaiKILLspamspamgmail.com> wrote:
> Just downloaded 64bit version of Ubuntu 8.10 and booted up from the live CD.
> I was so surprised, but it seems that the FireFox works great, there is no
> slowness on Gmail nor on other sites...
>
> Is anybody has an experience on 64 bit version of Ubuntu (or other distros)?
> Is there any stability or incompatibly issues? I mean as far as I know it is
> still possible to run 32 bit applications if the 32 bit libraries are
> installed, but is there any issues with those? What about drivers,
> especially the proprietary nVidia one?


Basic stuff should works just fine. NVidia provides 64bit drivers. Now that
Adobe also provides some 64bit Flash player, so you got one thing less
to worry about.

Still I tried to use 64bit a few years ago and did not think it offered
any benefits but troubles.

It seems now it is better supported. So you might want to give it a
try. And it also depends on your hardware. I will think it offers
not much performance benefits for most users with less than
4GB memory.

You might want to read here:
http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=343

Xiaofan

2009\04\08@200209 by Funny NYPD

picon face
32 bit OS can only support max. 4G RAM, what's the upper limit for 64 bit OS?

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com




________________________________
From: Tamas Rudnai <tamas.rudnaiSTOPspamspamspam_OUTgmail.com>
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <spamBeGonepiclistSTOPspamspamEraseMEmit.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2009 5:47:26 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Firefox feature reqest discussion: Stop button to  disabletimed reloads

Just downloaded 64bit version of Ubuntu 8.10 and booted up from the live CD.
I was so surprised, but it seems that the FireFox works great, there is no
slowness on Gmail nor on other sites...

Is anybody has an experience on 64 bit version of Ubuntu (or other distros)?
Is there any stability or incompatibly issues? I mean as far as I know it is
still possible to run 32 bit applications if the 32 bit libraries are
installed, but is there any issues with those? What about drivers,
especially the proprietary nVidia one?

Thanks
Tamas


On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 1:39 AM, Xiaofan Chen <KILLspamxiaofancspamBeGonespamgmail.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> -

2009\04\09@023619 by John La Rooy

flavicon
face

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Funny NYPD <@spam@funnynypd@spam@spamspam_OUTyahoo.com> wrote:
> 32 bit OS can only support max. 4G RAM, what's the upper limit for 64 bit OS?
>
>  Funny N.
> Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com
>

32bit Windows 2003 Server can use 64GB
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc758523.aspx

32bit Linux supports 64GB too.

Normally you still have a 2GB limit per process, but it is possible to
increase it to 3GB


John.

2009\04\09@032953 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 2:36 PM, John La Rooy <spamBeGonepiclist.jlrspamKILLspamlarooy.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Funny NYPD <.....funnynypdspam_OUTspamyahoo.com> wrote:
>> 32 bit OS can only support max. 4G RAM, what's the upper limit for 64 bit OS?
>>
>>  Funny N.
>> Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com
>>
>
> 32bit Windows 2003 Server can use 64GB
> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc758523.aspx
>
> 32bit Linux supports 64GB too.
>
> Normally you still have a 2GB limit per process, but it is possible to
> increase it to 3GB
>

This seems to be good explanation on this topic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension

On the other hand, the PC motherboard/chipsets often limits the
max memory installable. The cost might play a part as well.

So far, I am happy with 2GB memory under Linux and Vista.

Xiaofan

2009\04\09@043310 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
It is not only wuth the PAE, because that's good for application servers
where you have many memory hungry processes running parallel. However, the
virtual memory address space is still 32bit and it is a disadvantage if you
want to work with more than 2G files with file mapping. Or just simply need
gigas of ram like for example video editors - which my interest to the 64
bit systems coming from..

The trade off is that if an application uses 48 or even 64 bit pointers it
occupies more ram for the binary. Also 64 bit systems have memory alignment
issues as well (at least it was on Sparc, AIX and IA64). Because of these 64
bit applications need more cache in the CPU to get the same performance
impact as with the 32 bit ones.

Anyway, in most forums they say for video rendering it is much better to
have 64 bit OS and application, so I installed it on a spare drive and will
test it throughly before making the big switch.

Tamas


On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Xiaofan Chen <TakeThisOuTxiaofanc.....spamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> -

2009\04\13@005424 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 4:33 PM, Tamas Rudnai <RemoveMEtamas.rudnaispamspamBeGonegmail.com> wrote:
> Anyway, in most forums they say for video rendering it is much better to
> have 64 bit OS and application, so I installed it on a spare drive and will
> test it throughly before making the big switch.
>

I see. How do you like it so far?

It seems that 64bit OS will become the main stream pretty soon.
The main headache is the driver issues. For windows, Microsoft
requires 64bit driver to be submitted along with the 32bit driver
for WHQL. The problem is that many drivers are not going through
the WHQL process.


Xiaofan

2009\04\13@072215 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 5:53 AM, Xiaofan Chen <spamBeGonexiaofanc@spam@spamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:

> It seems that 64bit OS will become the main stream pretty soon.
> The main headache is the driver issues. For windows, Microsoft
> requires 64bit driver to be submitted along with the 32bit driver
> for WHQL. The problem is that many drivers are not going through
> the WHQL process.
>

So far so good. Now finally I have the setup on the laptop hard drive, and
started to use it. It seems to me that all the main things working reliable.
I had minor problems with the internal video camera though. But when I
manually load the v4l2_common kernel module then it works (will figure out
how to do it automatically).

Basically I have tried out many things, so I reinstalled it almos five
times! Firs of all I tried it with the external drive and when I found it as
workable I have installed the new 9.04 beta (64bit as well). That is
actually going to be great distro, especially with the ext4 file system. The
system came up 10 seconds faster than the 8.10 with ext3. Also that one
supperts the filesystem encryption even better than 8.10. But there were too
many problems so I said go back to 8.10 for the moment and when it becomes
stable I will have a second try.

Also tryed to encrypt the entire hard drive but it seems that is a problem
when I have a RAID0 configuration. With LVM it works but then all I can
achive with LVM is the larger capacity, while with RAID0 the disk speed also
increases. With my latest test the dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/null bs=1G
count=100 said 40MBps while the same with if=/dev/md0 which is the RAID0
mapper device it said 82MBps. I have no reference to other system though so
I have no idea if that is good or bad but the drives are 160G of 5krpm SATA
ones (the 2.5" laptop drives of course as everything is happening on a
laptop).

Anyway, ffmpeg now can do 400 fps encoding if I produce a divx file
(mpeg4video)  and 100fps when do an mjpeg which I am happy with. However,
just read an article that there is an API vor the nVidia GPU for decoding
video and is considered even faster so I will give it a try.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VDPAU

Tamas
--
http://www.mcuhobby.com

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