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'[OT] Firewire Bus'
2009\05\08@031218 by Heinz Czychun

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On 7-May-09, at 12:06 PM, Tamas Rudnai wrote:
>
...<snip>...

> How many Mac users are here?
> How many of you have (or even use :-) ) firewire?
> ...and How many have (or even use) firewire but _not_ with Mac?  --  
> Me is
> already one
>
> Tamas
>

HI,
       Tag changes to OT as requested. Survey says, it's been very useful.

       Long time Mac user and solid member of Apple geekdom. I have  
Firewire on three different models of G4 computers, 2 "towers" and a  
Mac-mini, as well as an Intel based laptop (MacBook). For the 2 G4  
desktop "towers" Firewire (2 ports each) was the only way to go since  
they originally came with USB 1.0 ports and the internal IDE  
controllers limited hard disk size to 128GB. The two G4s were  
introduced late 1999 to early 2002 both were bought used. The  
Firewire ports allowed attachment of larger disk drives, video  
capture devices, and SONY camcorders. Best performance was achieved  
with a drive and video capture device on each Firewire port.

       I would routinely capture on one G4, near the TV (poor man's TiVo),  
to a Firewire attached hard drive, then sneaker net the hard drive to  
the faster G4 (dual processor) at my computer desk for editing and  
DVD burning. So Firewire has extended the useful life of the old G4s.  
Also allowed the attachment of an external DVD player, so it could be  
used, where necessary, amongst the various computers. Not a big deal  
now, with cheap DVD burners, but when they first came out not so many  
years ago, they were pricey.

       I've also tested the G4 Macmini, with its single Firewire port, with  
both a video capture device daisy-chained with an external hard  
drive. Video was captured successfully without dropped frames. Files  
accumulate at around 13GB per hour of video.

       Only problem I found, was that multiple hard drives daisy-chained in  
cases of the same type only allow one drive to be mounted. And was  
definitely not happy with an IDE connected Firewire card.

       So Apple decided on Firewire for video capture when USB was  
incapable. And allowed limited footprint computers (laptops, Macmini)  
to expand hard drive capacity, and optical drive capability,  
externally, and at full speed.

       So overall I've been very happy with firewire. Perhaps Firewire's  
time has past and I'll be happy with USB in the future, I guess. Or  
something new will be available when/if I buy my next computer. Not  
happy right now with SATA drives being less than IDE, but the  
external enclosures still relatively (Firewire to IDE) expensive.

Regards,
Heinz

2009\05\08@145627 by Randy Glenn

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Another Mac user. 3 self-built external hard drives using FireWire,
one external DVD burner, formerly an iPod (doesn't work on the new
iPhone) and a DV camera. Also have a Windows PC with FireWire - used
from time to time, not that often - and Linux machine - just installed
the card, no chance to use it yet. All the drives on the Mac were at
one time daisy-chained (multiples of the same type), but I've moved to
a FireWire hub because neither my portable hard drive nor iPod had a
second port for pass-through.

The advantages of FireWire for hard drives are fairly strong - about
twice as fast as USB2 hard drives from what I recall. That's assuming
minimal seeking, of course. There's also enough power from one
FireWire cable to power a small external hard drive - every 2.5" USB
enclosure I've ever purchased comes with a weird USB cable to draw
power from two ports, because 500mA simply isn't enough.

My friends who do audio editing tell me that all their gear uses
FireWire - from a latency and bandwidth perspective, USB doesn't even
come close. Same deal with video. They were *incredibly* annoyed when
Apple released the new MacBooks sans FireWire - they like the smaller
computer for portability, but NEED to be able to use their gear in the
field. Nothing quite like being painted into a corner by your
supplier, I guess.

A word of warning to those looking for FireWire hard drives: look for
Oxford Semiconductor chipsets wherever possible. I've had a bit of bad
luck with the Prolific chips, but no problems with Oxford ones.

-Randy

On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 03:12, Heinz Czychun <spam_OUThczychunTakeThisOuTspamlks.net> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2009\05\08@164218 by William \Chops\ Westfield

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On May 8, 2009, at 11:55 AM, Randy Glenn wrote:

>>> ow many Mac users are here?
>>> How many of you have (or even use :-) ) firewire?
>>> ...and How many have (or even use) firewire but _not_ with Mac?

Me.  Use Mac as main, preferred system.
Use firewire pretty extensively for video input from camcorder, and have
done so since before USB2.0 existed.
Also have a firewire flash card reader (since the mac I had longest  
had only USB1.1, and the flash cards kept getting bigger), and several  
Firewire disks.
And I've used the Mac's "Target" mode to move files from old mac to  
new mac.

I also have and use PCs, and I've bought firewire cards for several  
PCs to share those disks (as well as to have the possibility of video  
import on them, though I don't think I've ever used it.)

Frankly, I think my firewire usage is going down.  USB2 is good enough  
for the backup disks (and significantly cheaper), and I really don't  
enjoy the "realtime" aspect of video import from the tape camcorders.  
I expect video to go faster-than-real-time importable (via non-tape  
media and compression) for me "soon."

BillW

2009\05\08@182016 by AGSCalabrese

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I use Macs and Windows and Linux.  I love Firewire for it's  
performance and if it is a dead technology, I will miss it.
Firewire was always more reliable than USB for me.
Gus

2009\05\09@083956 by WH Tan

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I didn't know anything about Firewire until recently - when I had to
attach a debugger to a Windows based system.  Sound to me anything has
been replaced by USB nowadays.

Best regards,

--
WH Tan

2009\05\09@085214 by Xiaofan Chen

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On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 8:39 PM, WH Tan <.....whsiung.myKILLspamspam@spam@gmail.com> wrote:
> I didn't know anything about Firewire until recently - when I had to
> attach a debugger to a Windows based system.  Sound to me anything has
> been replaced by USB nowadays.

That is true. USB debugging for Windows kernel using Windbg was not
supported until recently and it is only for Vista. 1394 is used more widely
(supported since XP) along with serial.
www.microsoft.com/whdc/devtools/debugging/whatsnew.mspx
www.plxtech.com/products/NET2000/NET20DC/default.asp
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc266340.aspx

--
Xiaofan http://mcuee.blogspot.com

2009\05\09@133559 by Brian B. Riley

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 Nope ... 1394 was native (thats is to say it was there in the main  
body, it didn't have to be selectively invoked) in Win 98.

On May 9, 2009, at 8:52 AM, Xiaofan Chen wrote:

> (supported since XP) along with serial.



--
cheers ... 73 de brian  riley,  n1bq , underhill center, vermont
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2009\05\09@200407 by Xiaofan Chen

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On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 1:35 AM, Brian B. Riley <brianbrspamKILLspammac.com> wrote:
>  Nope ... 1394 was native (thats is to say it was there in the main
> body, it didn't have to be selectively invoked) in Win 98.

If you read my post, I mean 1394 kernel debugging is supported
in XP. I do not think it is the case for Windows 98.


--
Xiaofan http://mcuee.blogspot.com

2009\05\09@224857 by Brian B. Riley

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I spoke to soon, my bad, your are indeed correct.

On May 9, 2009, at 8:04 PM, Xiaofan Chen wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

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