>> Ignore the bad, keep the good.
> I really sympathize with everybody who feels forced to read what he/she
> doesn't want to read. I don't do that, and I sure don't wish for anybody
> else to have to do that.
> But why don't you use technology to make your life easier? Why do you want
> to put restrictions on what other people write rather than use some tool
> help you filter what you read?
If you go back a month or so, you will find a message where I say
essentially the same thing. However, my opinion on this issue has changed
I only read perhaps 5% of all messages, and ignore the rest. I find that the
easiest way is to do a manual scan and mark the messages I'm not interested
in as "read".
Here's my reality:
1. I use OE to read all of my mail, including business, personal, and
2. I don't use "group messages by conversation", since it applies to all
messages (not just PicList) and I don't like that for personal and business
e-mail. If someone replies to a two-month old message (it happens quite
often), I won't know about it until I read all the other messages (it will
be several pages down).
3. I have about 40 different rules already, arranged by category. Adding
filters for annoying PicList threads has the potential of destroying the
Of course, I could:
A. Use a different program to read PicList.
B. Use additional filters.
C. Switch between "threaded" and "non-threaded" view.
However, each of the solutions would require an effort on my part, which
automatically means that I would be less likely to read the messages, and
reply to them. I believe this holds true for other people (about 2000 of
> I think it's as simple as Herman says: ignore what you don't like, focus
> what you do like. Don't read what you don't want to read, and you don't
> have to rant (even if it's only to yourself) about people writing about
> stuff you don't want to read about. And everybody is happy. Isn't this the
There were 143 messages with "top-posting, is it really that bad" in the
subject line. About 1/4 of these messages were from Xiaofan, and majority of
replies came from you, Olin, and Danny Sauer. I am not going to exploit, for
political purposes, Danny's youth and inexperience. But you guys should know
The problems I have with that particular thread are:
1. There are *way* too many messages.
2. The thread has branched out, and there were messages which were totally
3. The topic itself was of little value to me, and I'm guessing to most
If Xiaofan changed his mind about top posting (which I don't think he really
did, and I don't blame him) -- great, but I think the same thing could be
better achieved using private communication, without creating so much
clutter, pissing off so many people, and having members thrown off the List.
I don't mind posts, even the [WOT] ones. I start minding once they get out
of control and begin to interfere with my ability to follow threads I am
actually interested in.
The bottom line is, think before you post. Use appropriate tags. Trim
original text in replies. Stay on topic. Avoid top posting. If someone got
on your nerves, e-mail him/her offlist. When in doubt, don't post. Wash your
hands before returning to work. Oh yeah, and make sure to start a new thread
with a new message. :-)
Vitaliy wrote regarding 'Re: [OT] Off-topic moderation' on Wed, Nov 30 at 13:50:
> of replies came from you, Olin, and Danny Sauer. I am not going to exploit,
> for political purposes, Danny's youth and inexperience. But you guys should
> know better! :-)
I just want to contribute that I was feeling old after passing the
30-year mark earlier this month, but now I feel much better. Thanks,
Vitaliy, you saved me the senseless purchase of a convertible (for
> The bottom line is, think before you post. Use appropriate tags. Trim
> original text in replies. Stay on topic. Avoid top posting.
> If someone got
> on your nerves, e-mail him/her offlist. When in doubt, don't
> post. Wash your
> hands before returning to work. Oh yeah, and make sure to
> start a new thread
> with a new message. :-)
> 2. I don't use "group messages by conversation", since it applies to all
> messages (not just PicList) and I don't like that for personal and business
> 3. I have about 40 different rules already, arranged by category. Adding
> filters for annoying PicList threads has the potential of destroying the
> fragile order.
How about just one additional filter (could be on top or at the bottom,
depending on your other filters) that filters all piclist messages in a
special piclist folder, which is set to "group by conversation"? That's
minimal effort, probably won't disturb your other filters, and allows you
to view the piclist differently from "normal" email.
Another option would be to switch off receiving emails and add the piclist
to OE's newsgroups through gmane.org. This creates automatically a news
folder just for the piclist, probably with a threaded view as default.
(That's what I would do, and that's what I actually do, just not with OE.)
> I think the same thing could be better achieved using private
> communication, without creating so much clutter, pissing off so many
> people, and having members thrown off the List.
Probably true, but it's sometimes difficult to find the "jumping point". It
doesn't seem to be a common thing to split off a discussion into a private
group email exchange. Anyway, just in case, I'm open to any offlist
discussions split off from here... :)
On 12/1/05, James Newton, Host <.....jamesnewtonKILLspam@firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
> > The bottom line is, think before you post. Use appropriate tags. Trim
> > original text in replies. Stay on topic. Avoid top posting.
> > If someone got
> > on your nerves, e-mail him/her offlist. When in doubt, don't
> > post. Wash your
> > hands before returning to work. Oh yeah, and make sure to
> > start a new thread
> > with a new message. :-)
> Excellent advice. For more, see:
It is quite small so I take the liberty to copy it here. I honestly think my
English is not good enough to fully appreciate the relationship
between [OT] moderation and the disclaimer. Can someone help?
This product is meant for educational purposes only. Any resemblance
to real persons living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where
prohibited. Some assembly required. List each check separately by bank
number. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment.
Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. Do not
use while operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment. Postage will
be paid by addressee. This message is intended for the stated
recipients only. Subject to CAB approval. This is not an offer to sell
securities. Apply only to affected area. May be too intense for some
viewers. Do not stamp. Use other side for additional listings. For
recreational use only. Do not disturb. All models over 18 years of
age. If condition persists, consult your physician. No
user-serviceable parts inside. Freshest if eaten before date on
carton. Lavas los manos. Subject to change without notice. Times
approximate. Simulated picture. No postage necessary if mailed in the
United States. Please remain seated until the ride has come to a
complete stop. Breaking seal constitutes acceptance of agreement. For
off-road use only. One size fits all. Many suitcases look alike.
Contains a substantial amount of non-tobacco ingredients. Colors may
fade. We have sent the forms which seem right for you. Slippery when
wet. For office use only. Not affiliated with the American Red Cross.
Drop in any mailbox. Edited for television. Keep cool; process
promptly. Post office will not deliver without postage. Postage paid.
List was current at time of printing. Return to sender, no forwarding
order on file, unable to forward. Not responsible for direct,
indirect, incidental or consequential damages resulting from any
defect, error or failure to perform. At participating locations only.
Not the Beatles. Not the momma. Penalty for private use. See label for
sequence. Substantial penalty for early withdrawal. Protected by Smith
& Wesson. Do not write below this line. Falling rock. Lost ticket pays
maximum rate. Your cancelled check is your receipt. Add toner. Place
stamp here. Avoid contact with skin. Sanitized for your protection. Be
sure each item is properly endorsed. Sign here without admitting
guilt. Slightly higher west of the Mississippi. Employees and their
families are not eligible. Beware of dog. Beware of owner. Contestants
have been briefed on some questions before the show. Limited time
offer, call now to ensure prompt delivery. You must be present to win.
No passes accepted for this engagement. No purchase necessary.
Processed at location stamped in code at top of carton. Shading within
a garment may occur. Use only in a well-ventilated area. Keep away
from fire or flames. Replace with same type. Approved for veterans.
Soldiers and dogs, stay off the grass. Booths for two or more. Check
here if tax deductible. Some equipment shown is optional. Price does
not include taxes. No Canadian coins. Not recommended for children.
Prerecorded for this time zone. Reproduction strictly prohibited. Just
do me. No solicitors. No alcohol, dogs or horses. No anchovies unless
otherwise specified. Restaurant package, not for resale. List at least
two alternate dates. First pull up, then pull down. Call toll-free
number before digging. Driver does not carry cash. Some of the
trademarks mentioned in this product appear for identification
purposes only. No soap radio. Objects in mirror are closer than they
appear. Record additional transactions on back of previous stub. UNIX
is a registered trademark of AT&T. Do not fold, spindle or mutilate.
No transfers issued until the bus comes to a complete stop. Package
sold by weight, not volume. This is not a rehearsal. Unattended
luggage will be immediately destroyed by police. The red zone is for
loading and unloading of passangers only. Do not open except at a
static-free workstation. Genius is no excuse. Do not back up, severe
tire damage. Your mileage may vary. This supersedes all previous
notices. This bag contains moisture-sensitive devices. This is a work
of fiction, any resemblance to real persons living or dead is purely
accidental. Who is John Galt?. Why not? Question authority. Objects in
mirror may be wierder than they appear. Murphy works here, in fact he
started this company. If anything can go wrong, it will, only when you
are demonstrating the prototype to your boss. No animals where harmed
during the making of this motion picture. Not tested on animals. Not
intended for use on pets. You are here. Under the most rigorously
controlled environment, the product will do as it damn well pleases.
As seen on TV. Batman costume warning label: "Caution: Cape does not
enable user to fly." Superman costume warning lable: "Caution: Cape is
Xiaofan wrote regarding 'Re: [OT] Off-topic moderation' on Thu, Dec 01 at 09:39:
> What is this?
> It is quite small so I take the liberty to copy it here. I honestly think my
> English is not good enough to fully appreciate the relationship
> between [OT] moderation and the disclaimer. Can someone help?
It's a humorous parody, consisting of quotes from all sorts of "legal
disclaimers" and warnings which appear on a variety of products,
advertisements, etc in the US. Other countries may or may not be as
"sue-happy" as the US, and may have no idea what all that garbage is
for. I'm no the authority, but I'd suggest that it has very little to
do with moderation. :)
>On Thu, 1 Dec 2005, Xiaofan Chen wrote:
>>What is this?
>It is a futile attempt to make OT posters (and disgruntled readers of
>certain posts on that category) understand that there is no warranty ;-)
> >>What is this?
> >It is a futile attempt to make OT posters (and disgruntled
> readers of
> >certain posts on that category) understand that there is no warranty
> What? No "indemnify and hold harmless"?
I've been looking for the full text of that one but I actually haven't run
into it since I started that page. If you have a sample of the real thing,
do please send it to me (or just post it on that page using the form at the
Any others that I've missed? I want to be sure I have FULLY protected