Post by thread:[OT] Re: {EE} Want to detect auto turn signal blin

solarwind wrote: {Quote hidden}> On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Rolf <.....learrKILLspam@spam@rogers.com> wrote: > >> Tamas, in Canada and USA the busses are fitted with Red lights at the >> back and front. Rules of the road require that when the lights are >> flashing, all vehicles (travelling in any direction) are required to >> stop in order for the bus to load or unload kids. The assumption is that >> the kids can then safely cross the road if they need to get to the other >> side. >> >> www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFyv4uzSGto&NR=1 >> >> Rolf >> > > OT: I absolutely hate that rule. School buses should not get special > treatment and delay traffic. If the kids want to board the bus they > should wait for the walk sign to light up just like everybody else. > It's also a bad habit to run mindlessly across the road where a 200 > metric-ton truck driver (the truck is 200 metric-ton, not the driver) > may not see the signals and slam into a kid, killing them instantly. > > -- > solarwind > solarwind, interesting. Being opinionated is fine, but you should learn to justify your opinions with more meaningful arguments. In this case, your opinion is very strong, and your justification is very weak. Taking the 'trucker' justification first .... are you really suggesting that a trucker will be able to see a traffic light better than a big yellow school bus with flashing red lights and a big stop-sign sticking out the side? Suggesting that a trucker may not see the bus is a straw-man argument because by the same reasoning the same trucker may not see the cross-walk, a crossing light, a crossing guard, a traffic light, or any other mechanism a kid may use to cross the road. By nature of the 'rules of the road', a trucker (and any other motorist) is required to pay as much attention to buses as they would to traffic lights.... Another of your justifications, that it's a 'bad habit', is also just plain daft. If there is an established rule of the road, and the children are obeying that rule, then what could possibly be bad about that? I think you are trying to imply that the kids cross the road 'recklessly' without paying due attention to possible law breakers that pass the buss regardlessly... in other words, the bad habit is that the kids should still be careful when crossing in case someone disobeys the rule. I agree with you that many kids take the bus rule for granted, and fail to consider the people who break the law (by intent or by accident). It does seem prudent to look both ways and cross when it's safe, even if the bus has it's lights on, etc. I agree that I see many kids fail to show such prudence, and they should! But, these same kids would have the same issues at the cross-walks, and traffic lights, etc. It is not because of the bus that they are fools, it is the nature of kids to be like that, and take their safety for granted. Further, you suggest that the kids be treated like everyone else (and wait for the walk sign)... again, this is not really a justification ... There are laws that apply to all sorts of things where the authorities have deemed it appropriate. The walk light itself is a good example... authorities determined that walk lights make crossing the road at intersections safer. Without the lights, pedestrians and vehicles may inadvertently collide, and cause harm to each other. The walk light brings order to an otherwise chaotic system, and as a result, save lives. The authorities in essence created a special case for pedestrians at intersections, so they are note 'like every one else' (the cars), and they are treated specially. Where does one draw the line with special treatment... should we allow vehicles to travel at 20kph in the fast lanes of highways, allow anyone to park in handicap parking places, allow cyclists on freeways, etc. There are special cases for everything, and they *do* often make sense. Your inital statement is I think the most telling: School buses should not get special treatment and delay traffic. I think that is what you hate... you hate that the stopped busses delay traffic. Your justifications are all just a cover for you being peeved that the kids get to cross busy roads while you have to wait.... I can understand this sentiment. I often end up with somewhere to go but being behind a stopped bus, and some mother strolling accross the road with a kid waving at it's buddies still on the bus, dropping and picking up their mitts, books, etc. It can be very frustrating when these things happen.... especially when you know you can't pass the bus and that 100m down the road the whole process will repeat when the next kid gets off. Very frustrating... ... yet, still it is the law, and, there are studies that show that it has saved many lives, and like many things, from a 'big' perspective, the inconvenience it causes you is deemed to be less significant than the lives that would be lost without the law. Now, if you are angry enough with the situation I suggest you do something to change it... change the law by becoming a politician, etc. or invent a better system for loading/unloading kids. But, don't invent arguments for a system that frustrates you. Study the situation, identify your real concerns, and try to identify the reasoning in the system. Then consider where the real issue is, and respond appropriately. For the record, I hate having to wait for school buses as they load/unload, but I can see that there is a real and likely valid motivation for the law. As a result, I obey the law with a good conscience, and listen to soothing music. I also drive routes which have fewer buses, and I travel at times outside of school transport times. I treat this law the same as I treat a red light when there is no other traffic and it's 3am. I treat this law like stop streets (I really do stop properly). etc. Rolf

I agree with Solarwind MA {Quote hidden}> On Mar 8, 2009, at 2:04 PM, Rolf wrote: > > solarwind wrote: >> On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Rolf <learrKILLspamrogers.com> wrote: >> >>> Tamas, in Canada and USA the busses are fitted with Red lights at >>> the >>> back and front. Rules of the road require that when the lights are >>> flashing, all vehicles (travelling in any direction) are required to >>> stop in order for the bus to load or unload kids. The assumption >>> is that >>> the kids can then safely cross the road if they need to get to the >>> other >>> side. >>> >>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFyv4uzSGto&NR=1 >>> >>> Rolf >>> >> >> OT: I absolutely hate that rule. School buses should not get special >> treatment and delay traffic. If the kids want to board the bus they >> should wait for the walk sign to light up just like everybody else. >> It's also a bad habit to run mindlessly across the road where a 200 >> metric-ton truck driver (the truck is 200 metric-ton, not the driver) >> may not see the signals and slam into a kid, killing them instantly. >> >> -- >> solarwind >> > solarwind, interesting. > > Being opinionated is fine, but you should learn to justify your > opinions > with more meaningful arguments. > > In this case, your opinion is very strong, and your justification is > very weak. > > Taking the 'trucker' justification first .... are you really > suggesting > that a trucker will be able to see a traffic light better than a big > yellow school bus with flashing red lights and a big stop-sign > sticking > out the side? Suggesting that a trucker may not see the bus is a > straw-man argument because by the same reasoning the same trucker may > not see the cross-walk, a crossing light, a crossing guard, a traffic > light, or any other mechanism a kid may use to cross the road. By > nature > of the 'rules of the road', a trucker (and any other motorist) is > required to pay as much attention to buses as they would to traffic > lights.... > > Another of your justifications, that it's a 'bad habit', is also just > plain daft. If there is an established rule of the road, and the > children are obeying that rule, then what could possibly be bad about > that? I think you are trying to imply that the kids cross the road > 'recklessly' without paying due attention to possible law breakers > that > pass the buss regardlessly... in other words, the bad habit is that > the > kids should still be careful when crossing in case someone disobeys > the > rule. I agree with you that many kids take the bus rule for granted, > and > fail to consider the people who break the law (by intent or by > accident). It does seem prudent to look both ways and cross when it's > safe, even if the bus has it's lights on, etc. I agree that I see many > kids fail to show such prudence, and they should! But, these same kids > would have the same issues at the cross-walks, and traffic lights, > etc. > It is not because of the bus that they are fools, it is the nature of > kids to be like that, and take their safety for granted. > > Further, you suggest that the kids be treated like everyone else (and > wait for the walk sign)... again, this is not really a > justification ... > There are laws that apply to all sorts of things where the authorities > have deemed it appropriate. The walk light itself is a good example... > authorities determined that walk lights make crossing the road at > intersections safer. Without the lights, pedestrians and vehicles may > inadvertently collide, and cause harm to each other. The walk light > brings order to an otherwise chaotic system, and as a result, save > lives. The authorities in essence created a special case for > pedestrians > at intersections, so they are note 'like every one else' (the cars), > and > they are treated specially. Where does one draw the line with special > treatment... should we allow vehicles to travel at 20kph in the fast > lanes of highways, allow anyone to park in handicap parking places, > allow cyclists on freeways, etc. There are special cases for > everything, > and they *do* often make sense. > > Your inital statement is I think the most telling: School buses should > not get special treatment and delay traffic. > > I think that is what you hate... you hate that the stopped busses > delay > traffic. Your justifications are all just a cover for you being peeved > that the kids get to cross busy roads while you have to wait.... I can > understand this sentiment. I often end up with somewhere to go but > being > behind a stopped bus, and some mother strolling accross the road > with a > kid waving at it's buddies still on the bus, dropping and picking up > their mitts, books, etc. It can be very frustrating when these things > happen.... especially when you know you can't pass the bus and that > 100m > down the road the whole process will repeat when the next kid gets > off. > Very frustrating... > > ... yet, still it is the law, and, there are studies that show that it > has saved many lives, and like many things, from a 'big' perspective, > the inconvenience it causes you is deemed to be less significant than > the lives that would be lost without the law. > > Now, if you are angry enough with the situation I suggest you do > something to change it... change the law by becoming a politician, > etc. > or invent a better system for loading/unloading kids. > > But, don't invent arguments for a system that frustrates you. Study > the > situation, identify your real concerns, and try to identify the > reasoning in the system. Then consider where the real issue is, and > respond appropriately. > > For the record, I hate having to wait for school buses as they > load/unload, but I can see that there is a real and likely valid > motivation for the law. As a result, I obey the law with a good > conscience, and listen to soothing music. I also drive routes which > have > fewer buses, and I travel at times outside of school transport > times. I > treat this law the same as I treat a red light when there is no other > traffic and it's 3am. I treat this law like stop streets (I really do > stop properly). etc. > > Rolf > --

Then come to Ireland, here there are no school buses.. only 1 car per kid with the mum stopping on the middle of the road let you waiting much longer than a school bus would. And when you are lucky that noone is blocking the road then there is the lollypop lady why let's you waiting... Seriously, when there is no school, there is no traffic - I mean, NO traffic. School buses are good and even if you have to wait till they load it makes much less problems than the parents would. Tamas On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Michael Algernon <.....picKILLspam.....nope9.com> wrote: {Quote hidden}> I agree with Solarwind > MA > > On Mar 8, 2009, at 2:04 PM, Rolf wrote: > > > > solarwind wrote: > >> On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Rolf <EraseMElearrspam_OUTTakeThisOuTrogers.com> wrote: > >> > >>> Tamas, in Canada and USA the busses are fitted with Red lights at > >>> the > >>> back and front. Rules of the road require that when the lights are > >>> flashing, all vehicles (travelling in any direction) are required to > >>> stop in order for the bus to load or unload kids. The assumption > >>> is that > >>> the kids can then safely cross the road if they need to get to the > >>> other > >>> side. > >>> > >>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFyv4uzSGto&NR=1 > >>> > >>> Rolf > >>> > >> > >> OT: I absolutely hate that rule. School buses should not get special > >> treatment and delay traffic. If the kids want to board the bus they > >> should wait for the walk sign to light up just like everybody else. > >> It's also a bad habit to run mindlessly across the road where a 200 > >> metric-ton truck driver (the truck is 200 metric-ton, not the driver) > >> may not see the signals and slam into a kid, killing them instantly. > >> > >> -- > >> solarwind > >> > > solarwind, interesting. > > > > Being opinionated is fine, but you should learn to justify your > > opinions > > with more meaningful arguments. > > > > In this case, your opinion is very strong, and your justification is > > very weak. > > > > Taking the 'trucker' justification first .... are you really > > suggesting > > that a trucker will be able to see a traffic light better than a big > > yellow school bus with flashing red lights and a big stop-sign > > sticking > > out the side? Suggesting that a trucker may not see the bus is a > > straw-man argument because by the same reasoning the same trucker may > > not see the cross-walk, a crossing light, a crossing guard, a traffic > > light, or any other mechanism a kid may use to cross the road. By > > nature > > of the 'rules of the road', a trucker (and any other motorist) is > > required to pay as much attention to buses as they would to traffic > > lights.... > > > > Another of your justifications, that it's a 'bad habit', is also just > > plain daft. If there is an established rule of the road, and the > > children are obeying that rule, then what could possibly be bad about > > that? I think you are trying to imply that the kids cross the road > > 'recklessly' without paying due attention to possible law breakers > > that > > pass the buss regardlessly... in other words, the bad habit is that > > the > > kids should still be careful when crossing in case someone disobeys > > the > > rule. I agree with you that many kids take the bus rule for granted, > > and > > fail to consider the people who break the law (by intent or by > > accident). It does seem prudent to look both ways and cross when it's > > safe, even if the bus has it's lights on, etc. I agree that I see many > > kids fail to show such prudence, and they should! But, these same kids > > would have the same issues at the cross-walks, and traffic lights, > > etc. > > It is not because of the bus that they are fools, it is the nature of > > kids to be like that, and take their safety for granted. > > > > Further, you suggest that the kids be treated like everyone else (and > > wait for the walk sign)... again, this is not really a > > justification ... > > There are laws that apply to all sorts of things where the authorities > > have deemed it appropriate. The walk light itself is a good example... > > authorities determined that walk lights make crossing the road at > > intersections safer. Without the lights, pedestrians and vehicles may > > inadvertently collide, and cause harm to each other. The walk light > > brings order to an otherwise chaotic system, and as a result, save > > lives. The authorities in essence created a special case for > > pedestrians > > at intersections, so they are note 'like every one else' (the cars), > > and > > they are treated specially. Where does one draw the line with special > > treatment... should we allow vehicles to travel at 20kph in the fast > > lanes of highways, allow anyone to park in handicap parking places, > > allow cyclists on freeways, etc. There are special cases for > > everything, > > and they *do* often make sense. > > > > Your inital statement is I think the most telling: School buses should > > not get special treatment and delay traffic. > > > > I think that is what you hate... you hate that the stopped busses > > delay > > traffic. Your justifications are all just a cover for you being peeved > > that the kids get to cross busy roads while you have to wait.... I can > > understand this sentiment. I often end up with somewhere to go but > > being > > behind a stopped bus, and some mother strolling accross the road > > with a > > kid waving at it's buddies still on the bus, dropping and picking up > > their mitts, books, etc. It can be very frustrating when these things > > happen.... especially when you know you can't pass the bus and that > > 100m > > down the road the whole process will repeat when the next kid gets > > off. > > Very frustrating... > > > > ... yet, still it is the law, and, there are studies that show that it > > has saved many lives, and like many things, from a 'big' perspective, > > the inconvenience it causes you is deemed to be less significant than > > the lives that would be lost without the law. > > > > Now, if you are angry enough with the situation I suggest you do > > something to change it... change the law by becoming a politician, > > etc. > > or invent a better system for loading/unloading kids. > > > > But, don't invent arguments for a system that frustrates you. Study > > the > > situation, identify your real concerns, and try to identify the > > reasoning in the system. Then consider where the real issue is, and > > respond appropriately. > > > > For the record, I hate having to wait for school buses as they > > load/unload, but I can see that there is a real and likely valid > > motivation for the law. As a result, I obey the law with a good > > conscience, and listen to soothing music. I also drive routes which > > have > > fewer buses, and I travel at times outside of school transport > > times. I > > treat this law the same as I treat a red light when there is no other > > traffic and it's 3am. I treat this law like stop streets (I really do > > stop properly). etc. > > > > Rolf > > --

Ireland is tempting. I may like it better than the USA. The authorities ( and those who love them ) might not let me in. MA {Quote hidden}> On Mar 8, 2009, at 5:55 PM, Tamas Rudnai wrote: > > Then come to Ireland, here there are no school buses.. only 1 car > per kid > with the mum stopping on the middle of the road let you waiting much > longer > than a school bus would. And when you are lucky that noone is > blocking the > road then there is the lollypop lady why let's you waiting... > > Seriously, when there is no school, there is no traffic - I mean, NO > traffic. School buses are good and even if you have to wait till > they load > it makes much less problems than the parents would. > > Tamas > > > > On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Michael Algernon <picspam_OUTnope9.com> > wrote: > >> I agree with Solarwind >> MA >>> On Mar 8, 2009, at 2:04 PM, Rolf wrote: >>> >>> solarwind wrote: >>>> On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Rolf <@spam@learrKILLspamrogers.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Tamas, in Canada and USA the busses are fitted with Red lights at >>>>> the >>>>> back and front. Rules of the road require that when the lights are >>>>> flashing, all vehicles (travelling in any direction) are >>>>> required to >>>>> stop in order for the bus to load or unload kids. The assumption >>>>> is that >>>>> the kids can then safely cross the road if they need to get to the >>>>> other >>>>> side. >>>>> >>>>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFyv4uzSGto&NR=1 >>>>> >>>>> Rolf >>>>> >>>> >>>> OT: I absolutely hate that rule. School buses should not get >>>> special >>>> treatment and delay traffic. If the kids want to board the bus they >>>> should wait for the walk sign to light up just like everybody else. >>>> It's also a bad habit to run mindlessly across the road where a 200 >>>> metric-ton truck driver (the truck is 200 metric-ton, not the >>>> driver) >>>> may not see the signals and slam into a kid, killing them >>>> instantly. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> solarwind >>>> >>> solarwind, interesting. >>> >>> Being opinionated is fine, but you should learn to justify your >>> opinions >>> with more meaningful arguments. >>> >>> In this case, your opinion is very strong, and your justification is >>> very weak. >>> Do not agree with above statement MA Or the ones below. {Quote hidden}>>> Taking the 'trucker' justification first .... are you really >>> suggesting >>> that a trucker will be able to see a traffic light better than a big >>> yellow school bus with flashing red lights and a big stop-sign >>> sticking >>> out the side? Suggesting that a trucker may not see the bus is a >>> straw-man argument because by the same reasoning the same trucker >>> may >>> not see the cross-walk, a crossing light, a crossing guard, a >>> traffic >>> light, or any other mechanism a kid may use to cross the road. By >>> nature >>> of the 'rules of the road', a trucker (and any other motorist) is >>> required to pay as much attention to buses as they would to traffic >>> lights.... >>> >>> Another of your justifications, that it's a 'bad habit', is also >>> just >>> plain daft. If there is an established rule of the road, and the >>> children are obeying that rule, then what could possibly be bad >>> about >>> that? I think you are trying to imply that the kids cross the road >>> 'recklessly' without paying due attention to possible law breakers >>> that >>> pass the buss regardlessly... in other words, the bad habit is that >>> the >>> kids should still be careful when crossing in case someone disobeys >>> the >>> rule. I agree with you that many kids take the bus rule for granted, >>> and >>> fail to consider the people who break the law (by intent or by >>> accident). It does seem prudent to look both ways and cross when >>> it's >>> safe, even if the bus has it's lights on, etc. I agree that I see >>> many >>> kids fail to show such prudence, and they should! But, these same >>> kids >>> would have the same issues at the cross-walks, and traffic lights, >>> etc. >>> It is not because of the bus that they are fools, it is the nature >>> of >>> kids to be like that, and take their safety for granted. >>> >>> Further, you suggest that the kids be treated like everyone else >>> (and >>> wait for the walk sign)... again, this is not really a >>> justification ... >>> There are laws that apply to all sorts of things where the >>> authorities >>> have deemed it appropriate. The walk light itself is a good >>> example... >>> authorities determined that walk lights make crossing the road at >>> intersections safer. Without the lights, pedestrians and vehicles >>> may >>> inadvertently collide, and cause harm to each other. The walk light >>> brings order to an otherwise chaotic system, and as a result, save >>> lives. The authorities in essence created a special case for >>> pedestrians >>> at intersections, so they are note 'like every one else' (the cars), >>> and >>> they are treated specially. Where does one draw the line with >>> special >>> treatment... should we allow vehicles to travel at 20kph in the fast >>> lanes of highways, allow anyone to park in handicap parking places, >>> allow cyclists on freeways, etc. There are special cases for >>> everything, >>> and they *do* often make sense. >>> >>> Your inital statement is I think the most telling: School buses >>> should >>> not get special treatment and delay traffic. >>> >>> I think that is what you hate... you hate that the stopped busses >>> delay >>> traffic. Your justifications are all just a cover for you being >>> peeved >>> that the kids get to cross busy roads while you have to wait.... I >>> can >>> understand this sentiment. I often end up with somewhere to go but >>> being >>> behind a stopped bus, and some mother strolling accross the road >>> with a >>> kid waving at it's buddies still on the bus, dropping and picking up >>> their mitts, books, etc. It can be very frustrating when these >>> things >>> happen.... especially when you know you can't pass the bus and that >>> 100m >>> down the road the whole process will repeat when the next kid gets >>> off. >>> Very frustrating... >>> >>> ... yet, still it is the law, and, there are studies that show >>> that it >>> has saved many lives, and like many things, from a 'big' >>> perspective, >>> the inconvenience it causes you is deemed to be less significant >>> than >>> the lives that would be lost without the law. >>> >>> Now, if you are angry enough with the situation I suggest you do >>> something to change it... change the law by becoming a politician, >>> etc. >>> or invent a better system for loading/unloading kids. >>> >>> But, don't invent arguments for a system that frustrates you. Study >>> the >>> situation, identify your real concerns, and try to identify the >>> reasoning in the system. Then consider where the real issue is, and >>> respond appropriately. >>> >>> For the record, I hate having to wait for school buses as they >>> load/unload, but I can see that there is a real and likely valid >>> motivation for the law. As a result, I obey the law with a good >>> conscience, and listen to soothing music. I also drive routes which >>> have >>> fewer buses, and I travel at times outside of school transport >>> times. I >>> treat this law the same as I treat a red light when there is no >>> other >>> traffic and it's 3am. I treat this law like stop streets (I really >>> do >>> stop properly). etc. >>> >>> Rolf >>> WFT Electronics Denver, CO 720 222 1309 " dent the UNIVERSE " All ideas, text, drawings and audio , that are originated by WFT Electronics ( and it's principals ), that are included with this signature text are to be deemed to be released to the public domain as of the date of this communication .