Now I am downloading the ISO from a oversea mirror. The local mirrors
and my favorite mirror (pacific.net.au) does not have the ISO yet
and I do not want to use any torrent (just a personal choice).
Are there any people here running it? I have two empty partitions now
(after killing OpenSuse 10.3 and CentOS 5) so I will give it a try.
So I will have three Ubuntu versions and FC7/Arch Linux in my
computer. I will keep using mainly Ubuntu 6.06LTS and maybe 7.10
if the installation process goes smooth.
On 10/20/07, Xiaofan Chen <spam_OUTxiaofancTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:
> Now I am downloading the ISO from a oversea mirror. The local mirrors
> and my favorite mirror (pacific.net.au) does not have the ISO yet
> and I do not want to use any torrent (just a personal choice).
>
Oops the download failed. So I will wait a while until the three
mirros have the ISO. This will also give me sometime to check
out Ubuntu forum to see if there are some problems.
On 10/20/07, Xiaofan Chen <.....xiaofancKILLspam@spam@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Are there any people here running it? I have two empty partitions now
> (after killing OpenSuse 10.3 and CentOS 5) so I will give it a try.
Posting from it right now. :) I downloaded it via torrent at about
300kbps on my home connection, one of the fastest torrents I've ever
seen at home.
I'm just running the live CD but from what I have seen, it's very
nice. The desktop effects are great!
On Sat, 2007-10-20 at 18:59 +0800, Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> Now I am downloading the ISO from a oversea mirror. The local mirrors
> and my favorite mirror (pacific.net.au) does not have the ISO yet
> and I do not want to use any torrent (just a personal choice).
>
> Are there any people here running it? I have two empty partitions now
> (after killing OpenSuse 10.3 and CentOS 5) so I will give it a try.
> So I will have three Ubuntu versions and FC7/Arch Linux in my
> computer. I will keep using mainly Ubuntu 6.06LTS and maybe 7.10
> if the installation process goes smooth.
Installed it on my work PC, no issues, working well.
Turned on my 7.04 laptop today, the "software update" popup appeared.
Opening it I noticed a new button "upgrade to 7.10". Clicked it and it's
currently downloading, could they make it any easier? Amazing.
> Turned on my 7.04 laptop today, the "software update" popup appeared.
> Opening it I noticed a new button "upgrade to 7.10". Clicked it and it's
> currently downloading, could they make it any easier? Amazing.
>
Just be aware that ubuntu upgrades are nice when they work but afaict
when they fail there is little if any support availible from the ubuntu
community (other than telling people to reinstall).
On Sat, 2007-10-20 at 23:26 +0100, peter green wrote:
> > Turned on my 7.04 laptop today, the "software update" popup appeared.
> > Opening it I noticed a new button "upgrade to 7.10". Clicked it and it's
> > currently downloading, could they make it any easier? Amazing.
> >
> Just be aware that ubuntu upgrades are nice when they work but afaict
> when they fail there is little if any support availible from the ubuntu
> community (other than telling people to reinstall).
Hehe, not a problem.
Actually when it comes to linux I have a rule that says NEVER "upgrade",
always fresh install.
However, since the button was there I thought, what the heck.
We'll see what the result is. Just finished downloading, it's doing the
update now. I always have my data on my servers, so whether the OS gets
hosed or not doesn't matter.
On 10/21/07, peter green <plugwashKILLspamp10link.net> wrote:
>
> > Turned on my 7.04 laptop today, the "software update" popup appeared.
> > Opening it I noticed a new button "upgrade to 7.10". Clicked it and it's
> > currently downloading, could they make it any easier? Amazing.
> >
> Just be aware that ubuntu upgrades are nice when they work but afaict
> when they fail there is little if any support availible from the ubuntu
> community (other than telling people to reinstall).
>
True.
I started with Ubuntu 5.04 two years ago. The upgrade to 5.10 was
a disaster and led me to have the 2nd Linux option (FC4). So I choose
to reinstall of 5.10, and later delete it and install 6.06. I
installed 6.10 to a
new partition (kept 6.06). However I chose to upgrade 6.10 to 7.04
(just trying, the worst is to reinstall as my key data is on another
partition) again and it was a smooth process.
This time I will install 7.10 to another new partition.
I got another mirror working yesterday. So this morning, I burnt
the CD and had my breakfast.
9:00am, boot into the install CD, Ubuntu Started and I clicked the
install icon.
Oops the computer did not respond.
9:05am: I restarted the PC and then I chose "safe graphics mode".
The installation is smooth. I chose not to install the bootloader.
9:25am: The installation process finished and I reboot to Ubuntu 6.06
and change the grub menu list to add Ubuntu 7.10 and then reboot.
9:30am: I am now typing under Firefox under Ubuntu 7.10.
It is just so easy. The sound card works right away. I need to do some
tweaks to get the sound card working under FC7 because I have one
TV tuner card which I have not got it to work under Linux yet and that
tuner card is also recognized as a sound card.
On Sun, 2007-10-21 at 09:41 +0800, Xiaofan Chen wrote: {Quote hidden}
> On 10/21/07, Herbert Graf <EraseMEmailinglist3spam_OUTTakeThisOuTfarcite.net> wrote:
> > Installed it on my work PC, no issues, working well.
> >
>
> I got another mirror working yesterday. So this morning, I burnt
> the CD and had my breakfast.
>
> 9:00am, boot into the install CD, Ubuntu Started and I clicked the
> install icon.
> Oops the computer did not respond.
>
> 9:05am: I restarted the PC and then I chose "safe graphics mode".
> The installation is smooth. I chose not to install the bootloader.
>
> 9:25am: The installation process finished and I reboot to Ubuntu 6.06
> and change the grub menu list to add Ubuntu 7.10 and then reboot.
>
> 9:30am: I am now typing under Firefox under Ubuntu 7.10.
>
> It is just so easy. The sound card works right away. I need to do some
> tweaks to get the sound card working under FC7 because I have one
> TV tuner card which I have not got it to work under Linux yet and that
> tuner card is also recognized as a sound card.
Hmm, well, things went smoothly for me on the "upgrade". Only issue was
nfs mounts didn't work anymore. Had to add nfs-common, I guess 7.04 had
then necessary components in other packages. No biggie. Pleasant
surprise is the GUI effects now work very well (although I've never been
a fan, fortunately it can be easily turned off) and it supports the
winmodem in my Dell 600m. All in all, probably the easiest upgrade of an
OS I've ever experienced. TTYL
On 10/21/07, Herbert Graf <mailinglist3spam_OUTfarcite.net> wrote:
> Hmm, well, things went smoothly for me on the "upgrade". Only issue was
> nfs mounts didn't work anymore. Had to add nfs-common, I guess 7.04 had
> then necessary components in other packages. No biggie. Pleasant
> surprise is the GUI effects now work very well (although I've never been
> a fan, fortunately it can be easily turned off) and it supports the
> winmodem in my Dell 600m. All in all, probably the easiest upgrade of an
> OS I've ever experienced. TTYL
>
It is not a surprise for me that GUI effects do not work for me.
Martin K is right that my ATI9800SE card is the problem. I killed
the OpenSuse 10.3 partition since it could not boot after I tried to
enable visual effects. ;-(
FC7 is better. It hangs but reboot fix the problem. Ubuntu 7.10 is
the best. It tells me that visual effects can not be started. So it
passed my test. Right now the problem is that no mirror works
for me. I just want to get some development packages
like /autoxxxx/cvs/svn/libusb-devel/swig/etc but one of them are
available. I think I would have to wait.
Ok so much for Ubuntu 7.10. I will now reboot to 6.06.
Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> Now I am downloading the ISO from a oversea mirror. The local mirrors
> and my favorite mirror (pacific.net.au) does not have the ISO yet
> and I do not want to use any torrent (just a personal choice).
>
> Are there any people here running it? I have two empty partitions now
> (after killing OpenSuse 10.3 and CentOS 5) so I will give it a try.
> So I will have three Ubuntu versions and FC7/Arch Linux in my
> computer. I will keep using mainly Ubuntu 6.06LTS and maybe 7.10
> if the installation process goes smooth.
>
> Xiaofan
>
I've been running it since beta-5 no complaints
The only issue i have had is browsing bluetooth devices needed another
package installed and that wasn't spelt out.
and re-compiling vmware and nvidia drivers at each kernel update (which
being pre-release there were a lot of) but that was all pretty automated
anyway so it wasn't a big hassle. "bulletproof X" kinda sucks though,
when x is dead i want it to stay dead so i can fix it.
On Sun, 2007-10-21 at 10:35 +0800, Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> It is not a surprise for me that GUI effects do not work for me.
> Martin K is right that my ATI9800SE card is the problem. I killed
> the OpenSuse 10.3 partition since it could not boot after I tried to
> enable visual effects. ;-(
>
> FC7 is better. It hangs but reboot fix the problem. Ubuntu 7.10 is
> the best. It tells me that visual effects can not be started. So it
> passed my test. Right now the problem is that no mirror works
That's weird. I've got a Mobility 9600 in my machine and the desktop
effects seem to work without issue. It's certainly not that fast a card,
but the effects don't chug at all. TTYL
> On 10/20/07, Xiaofan Chen <KILLspamxiaofancKILLspamgmail.com> wrote:
>> and I do not want to use any torrent (just a personal choice).
>>
>
> Oops the download failed.
This is the main reason i prefer bittorrent.
It never fail - it checks and retries every chunk - and you can use bittorrent to repair a failed file downloaded by other means.
Another way to repair files that i find impressive is PAR2 files.
You use a tool to check what you have, and i tells you how many chunks of repair data you need.
I do not know if Ubunto have it, but Mandriva: http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Docs/Basic_tasks/Iso_Repair_PAR2
RANT:
Mandriva, BTW, just came out with 2008 version. Now upgraded from 2007.1 (1400+ packages) and now i write this :)
However there is a mean bug they are working on that wrecks the rpm database sometimes on some systems so it need be rebuilt. Naturally my system seem to be one of theese...
Except from that i believe Mandriva is a perfect technicians system, and more people seem to believe so tools seem to be more often packaged for Mandriva than other distros. (piklab, sdcc, also bookkeeping program, etc, etc)
I like that it is easy to manipulate manually if you need, and still it is also very automated if you like feel you have other tings to do than fiddle with the system. I fiddel much less now than i needed on Microsoft systems. For example it took two long evenings to install Win2k on my T30 laptop including some drivers from IBM, and it still cannot suspend to RAM or use modem... Mandriva installed in an hour including suspend to RAM and hibernate to disk - everything except the winmodem works. (and that modem is "impossible" to get working under windows as IBM/Lenovo refers an external manufacturer that have been bought, and the driver is not available... that is what you get for proprietary software...)
Mandriva is also changing strategy now, you can be a club member free of charge.
The only thing they will charge is access to install proprietary Non-Mandriva programs (LinDVD, Cedega, Some vendors own graphics drivers etc)
On 10/22/07, Morgan Olsson <RemoveMEost011TakeThisOuTosterlen.tv> wrote:
> Den 2007-10-20 14:30:44 skrev Xiaofan Chen <spamBeGonexiaofancspamBeGonegmail.com>:
>
> > On 10/20/07, Xiaofan Chen <TakeThisOuTxiaofancEraseMEspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:
> >> and I do not want to use any torrent (just a personal choice).
> > Oops the download failed.
>
> This is the main reason i prefer bittorrent.
> It never fail - it checks and retries every chunk -
> and you can use bittorrent to repair a failed file downloaded
> by other means.
The main reason I do not like torrent is that it is somewhat
associated with piracy in many places. Especially in the
developed countries, I believe it is the main form of piracy.
The other reason is I do not need to use torrent in most
cases. I do not really download big files other than
occasional Linux CD/DVD download. FTP is good enough
for me in most cases. I get quite decent download speed
from ftp://mirror.pacific.net.au/.
>
> Except from that i believe Mandriva is a perfect technicians
> system, and more people seem to believe so tools seem to
> be more often packaged for Mandriva than other distros.
> (piklab, sdcc, also bookkeeping program, etc, etc)
>
For piklab/gputils/sdcc/gpsim I always built from sources. You do
not need to wait for the packager to prepare the package.
On 10/22/07, Morgan Olsson <RemoveMEost011TakeThisOuTosterlen.tv> wrote:
> Mandriva, BTW, just came out with 2008 version. Now upgraded from 2007.1 (1400+ packages) and now i write this :)
> However there is a mean bug they are working on that wrecks the rpm database sometimes on some systems so it need be rebuilt. Naturally my system seem to be one of theese...
I tried to upgrade yesterday from 2007.1 at home and I hit the same
problem! It's really frustrating especially since not all the packages
are up-to-date :(
It's a real pity they haven't seen (and fixed) the problem before
releasing. I guess I could reinstall 2007.1 if it's not solved fast...
Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> The main reason I do not like torrent is that it is somewhat
> associated with piracy in many places.
Shouldn't be a reason not to use it - other people are now taking on
bittorent as a serious contender for general downloading - take
Soft32.com as an example.
> Especially in the
> developed countries, I believe it is the main form of piracy.
>
> The other reason is I do not need to use torrent in most
> cases.
The benefit is reduced load on the mirror services allowing them to spend
money / resources on other things than simply bandwidth.
> I do not really download big files other than
> occasional Linux CD/DVD download. FTP is good enough
> for me in most cases. I get quite decent download speed
> from ftp://mirror.pacific.net.au/.
True, FTP does often go faster; however, if you are downloading a 3GB ISO
file, the number of other people also grabbing the file makes for an
enormous bandwidth bill for the mirrors.
The only real gripe I have with bittorent is the number of connections
that must be created for a good speed. Unless you have a fairly good
router, the shear number of open connections can crash it.
> The main reason I do not like torrent is that it is somewhat
> associated with piracy in many places.
Cars and other vessels are even hmore involved in crimes, not to mention unintentional killngs, but i still use it :/
I also use bits and bytes in a lot of other protocols ;)
If any autohority wants to investigate i have nothing to hide.
> FTP is good enough for me in most cases.
> I get quite decent download speed
But you use bandwidth on that server that could be better used for online upgrades.
For bittorrent it is imperative that the users care for each other and keep seeding after downoad.
I still seed Mandriva Powerpack dvd, and Azureus report several peers getting hundreds of Kbytes/s total download speed.
There are currently 6 times more seeders than peers.
> For piklab/gputils/sdcc/gpsim I always built from sources. You do
> not need to wait for the packager to prepare the package.
I do not need to waste time finding needed files and resolve dependencies and other work if i do not *have* to get the latest version.
And that goes for lots of programs.
I have only needed to compile anything manually once (packages for my wacom tablet).
(then there are thoose compile things going on when you change kernel, but that is automatic)
> On 10/22/07, Morgan Olsson <RemoveMEost011spam_OUTKILLspamosterlen.tv> wrote:
>> Mandriva, BTW, just came out with 2008 version. Now upgraded from 2007.1 (1400+ packages) and now i write this :)
>> However there is a mean bug they are working on that wrecks the rpm database sometimes on some systems so it need be rebuilt. Naturally my system seem to be one of theese...
>
> I tried to upgrade yesterday from 2007.1 at home and I hit the same
> problem! It's really frustrating especially since not all the packages
> are up-to-date :(
Development never cease. Anything not working?
> It's a real pity they haven't seen (and fixed) the problem before
> releasing.
> I guess I could reinstall 2007.1 if it's not solved fast...
I am holding my horsed for a fix. Everything works OK for me.
Reportedly the problem does not appear on a fresh install of 2008, so do not install 2007.x.
The directory structure of Linux makes reinstallaiton much easier than on MSWindows, but the hard time is remembering all programs you had instaled.
(OK you can list packages etc, but still)
Another issue is customisaiton of appearances etc, but lots of things kan be restored by copying back your home which have lots of windows system and programs settings stored in hidden folders.
Alwaysmake backup first though...
> The directory structure of Linux makes reinstallaiton much easier than on MSWindows, but the hard time is remembering all programs you had instaled.
> (OK you can list packages etc, but still)
> Another issue is customisaiton of appearances etc, but lots of things kan be restored by copying back your home which have lots of windows system and programs settings stored in hidden folders.
> Alwaysmake backup first though...
That's correct. Since I don't have to erase my home partition, it's
quite easy to make a fresh install. It's actually quite a bit faster
than to upgrade too :)
Brendan Gillatt wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Xiaofan Chen wrote:
>
>> The main reason I do not like torrent is that it is somewhat
>> associated with piracy in many places.
>>
>
> Shouldn't be a reason not to use it - other people are now taking on
> bittorent as a serious contender for general downloading - take
> Soft32.com as an example.
>
>
blizzard entertainment uses BT protocol to spread its updates and
patches to the several million subscribers of its games.
On 10/22/07, Brendan Gillatt <RemoveMEbrendanTakeThisOuTspambrendangillatt.co.uk> wrote:
> True, FTP does often go faster; however, if you are downloading a 3GB ISO
> file, the number of other people also grabbing the file makes for an
> enormous bandwidth bill for the mirrors.
I see. Thanks for pointing out this.
> The only real gripe I have with bittorent is the number of connections
> that must be created for a good speed. Unless you have a fairly good
> router, the shear number of open connections can crash it.
>
This is an interesting thing. This is also one reason I do not like
bittorrent. In a friend's place, they have three PCs, one of the
PC is using bittorrent (not fast at all) and sometimes the other two
PCs will have very slow connections. The routher is the famous
Linksys WRT54G (very common in Singapore because Telco gives
them free when signing up with contract).
How does this (crash) happen? How many open connections will a
router support? What is the limiting factor on the router's side
(RAM, processor power, firmware limitations)?
Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> On 10/22/07, Brendan Gillatt <EraseMEbrendanspamspamBeGonebrendangillatt.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> True, FTP does often go faster; however, if you are downloading a 3GB ISO
>> file, the number of other people also grabbing the file makes for an
>> enormous bandwidth bill for the mirrors.
>>
>
> I see. Thanks for pointing out this.
>
>
As long as you stick to mirrors that are reasonablly close to you
geographically and run by major ISPs the bandwidth cost incurred to the
mirrors hoster shouldn't be too bad. Most ISPs have peering deals set up
with other local ISPs so local traffic is nearly free to them.
> As long as you stick to mirrors that are reasonablly close to you
> geographically and run by major ISPs the bandwidth cost incurred to the
> mirrors hoster shouldn't be too bad. Most ISPs have peering deals set up
> with other local ISPs so local traffic is nearly free to them.
>
Yes I am using mirrors run by Singapore companies.
Last time I always use sg.archive.ubuntu.com (ftp.nus.edu.sg) but
recently the speed drops significantly. So I switched to Pacific
Internet Australia (ftp://mirror.pacific.net.au) which is the subsidiary
of Pacific Internet (http://www.pacnet.com/), a major independent
ISP in Asia Pacific region. Recently Asia Netcom gained control
of PacNet. The history of Asia Netcom is also kind of interesting.
It is from the asset of Asia Global Crossing, the Asia part of
the failed Global Crossing.
My own ISP (Starhub: http://www.starhub.com) does not have
a mirror for Ubuntu. Singtel (owns Optus in Australia) used to
provide a mirror but no more. Optus does provide a mirror.
On 10/23/07, Morgan Olsson <ost011STOPspamspam_OUTosterlen.tv> wrote:
> > For piklab/gputils/sdcc/gpsim I always built from sources. You do
> > not need to wait for the packager to prepare the package.
>
> I do not need to waste time finding needed files and resolve
> dependencies and other work if i do not *have* to get the latest version.
Hmm, actually I think built-from-souce has less dependency
problems. Maybe my usage of piklab (I am a beta tester) dictates
that I will always use the latest (and the greatest) of piklab.
gputils/gpsim/sdcc release are often lag quite a lot with the
development version. So I will always use the development version.
> And that goes for lots of programs.
> I have only needed to compile anything manually once
> (packages for my wacom tablet).
> (then there are thoose compile things going on when you change
> kernel, but that is automatic)
My main real work under Linux (other than browsing Internet)
is to test PICkit 2/PICDEM FS USB. Sometimes I have problems and
the advise from the Linuxdeveloper is to use the latest (thus
the greatest) vanilla kernel. So I have to build the kernel.
I do not know how to build a debian package (for Ubuntu) or
RPM (for FC7) yet and I find it not necessary for now.
> > Shouldn't be a reason not to use it - other people are now taking on
> > bittorent as a serious contender for general downloading - take
> > Soft32.com as an example.
I can see that. I use BT for downloading Ubuntu before but it is
slower than FTP.
> blizzard entertainment uses BT protocol to spread its updates and
> patches to the several million subscribers of its games.
I see. What is Blizzard? ;-) I do not play games (other than those
NES/GameBoy level of small games).
On 10/23/07, Nicolas <KILLspamaazhydspamBeGonegmail.com> wrote:
> That's correct. Since I don't have to erase my home partition, it's
> quite easy to make a fresh install. It's actually quite a bit faster
> than to upgrade too :)
>
This seems to be true for many Linux distros. Dependency hell
(related to the difficulty of upgrading) seems to be more problematic
for RPM based distros.
That is why I am also trying "versionless" Linux distro, Arch Linux.
I think I will not like Gentoo yet. The upgrade process of Arch is
rather painless. The main problem I have with Arch seems to be
the broken udev rules. I need to try again.
The other problem is the sheer number of updates. Without a
fast mirror, it is not easy to follow the updates. It is quite annoying
to have 1GB of updates after installing FC7 fromthe downloadded
DVD. yum is also not as good as apt.
FreeBSD is kind of in the middle. The upgrade of kernel and provided
userland (make world) using cvsup are both rather painless. The
upgrade of port system is rather painful (sometimes the binary
package is not ready but the source package is broken). Therefore I do
not really update the ports.
> On 10/22/07, Brendan Gillatt <@spam@brendan@spam@spam_OUTbrendangillatt.co.uk> wrote:
>> Unless you have a fairly good
>> router, the shear number of open connections can crash it.
>>
>
> This is an interesting thing. This is also one reason I do not like
> bittorrent. In a friend's place, they have three PCs, one of the
> PC is using bittorrent (not fast at all) and sometimes the other two
> PCs will have very slow connections.
The auto speed thingy in Azureus works pretty well.
It pings three peers and when ping times go up it throttles.
It usually means it runs at 2/3 line capacity and ping times 100-150ms; tolerable.
When i start surfing much it go down in bandwidth use in a second or so.
It seems my ISP and probably other apply a delay proportional to bandwith use, although i am not near full capacity.
Aureus and some FTP can still reach full line speed ( probably by pre-requesting file chunks ) but then it is very hard to surf.
Azureus is by far my best file-getter so far. One tip thogh: close unused tabs as some will cause java to use much CPU.
There are more lightweight and more CPU efficient clients, but Azureus give most feedback which i prefer.
d4x is the best client i tried for FTP.
> The routher is the famous Linksys WRT54G
I have WRT54GS v 1.1, Firmware Version : v4.70.6 between my radio modem (to my ISP) and a switch on my LAN, and the WRT54 also works as wireless router.
I have experienced no problem, but my speed limit is about 61 KByte/s bidirectional.
I have sometimes connected over 200 peers, normally but keep it lower to lower protocol bandwidth use.
On 10/21/07, Xiaofan Chen <spamBeGonexiaofancKILLspamgmail.com> wrote:
> Right now the problem is that no mirror works
> for me. I just want to get some development packages
> like /autoxxxx/cvs/svn/libusb-devel/swig/etc but one of them are
> available. I think I would have to wait.
>
> Ok so much for Ubuntu 7.10. I will now reboot to 6.06.
>
Now the mirrors start to work. So I am back to Ubuntu 7.10.
The first thing is to test PICDEM FS USB and PICkit 2. They
are still working. Good.
> I have experienced no problem, but my speed limit is about 61 KByte/s
> bidirectional. I have sometimes connected over 200 peers, normally
> but keep it lower to lower protocol bandwidth use.
Hmm, 61KB/s, that is not that fast. Is this your broadband connection
speed limit? Or this is the speed limit from BT sites (that is normal then).
I have 6Mbps cable online connection by Starhub (upstream only 256kbps).
It costs me about US$40 per month. And this is the slowest (cheapest)
from Starhub. They offer another two speed option. 25Mbps (384kbps
upstream) costs about US$55 per month and 100Mbps (2Mbps upstream)
costs about US$80 per month. This is not so cheap considering the
income here in Singapore.
Normally I can get 300-600kB/s from fast FTP mirror for Ubuntu
related download.
On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 10:39 +0800, Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> On 10/23/07, Jake Anderson <TakeThisOuTjake.....TakeThisOuTvapourforge.com> wrote:
>
> > > Shouldn't be a reason not to use it - other people are now taking on
> > > bittorent as a serious contender for general downloading - take
> > > Soft32.com as an example.
>
> I can see that. I use BT for downloading Ubuntu before but it is
> slower than FTP.
Then chances are your firewall wasn't configured correctly.
Bittorrent will "work" if you don't do anything on your firewall/router,
but it will work MUCH faster if you port forward a series of incoming
ports to your machine.
I easily saturate my DSL download link when downloading legitimate
torrents, WAY faster then FTP, especially when I'm getting something
"new".
On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 10:47 +0800, Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> On 10/23/07, Nicolas <TakeThisOuTaazhydKILLspamspamgmail.com> wrote:
> > That's correct. Since I don't have to erase my home partition, it's
> > quite easy to make a fresh install. It's actually quite a bit faster
> > than to upgrade too :)
> >
>
> This seems to be true for many Linux distros. Dependency hell
> (related to the difficulty of upgrading) seems to be more problematic
> for RPM based distros.
Every Linux distro has that problem, it just used to be way more
pronounced with RPM based distros since RPM itself has zero dependency
resolution. With YUM, and a good set of repositories (not the default
set) the dependency hell is almost as rare as with debian based distros.
I recently went through dependency hell on Ubuntu trying to install a C
graphics library. Fortunately my extensive experience with pre YUM
redhat helped me figure things out.
> On 10/23/07, Morgan Olsson <RemoveMEost011spamBeGoneosterlen.tv>
> wrote:
>
> > I have experienced no problem, but my speed limit
> is about 61 KByte/s
> > bidirectional. I have sometimes connected over 200
> peers, normally
> > but keep it lower to lower protocol bandwidth use.
>
> Hmm, 61KB/s, that is not that fast. Is this your
> broadband connection
> speed limit? Or this is the speed limit from BT
> sites (that is normal then).
>
> I have 6Mbps cable online connection by Starhub
> (upstream only 256kbps).
> It costs me about US$40 per month. And this is the
> slowest (cheapest)
> from Starhub. They offer another two speed option.
> 25Mbps (384kbps
> upstream) costs about US$55 per month and 100Mbps
> (2Mbps upstream)
> costs about US$80 per month. This is not so cheap
> considering the
> income here in Singapore.
>
> Normally I can get 300-600kB/s from fast FTP mirror
> for Ubuntu
> related download.
>
> Xiaofan
On 10/23/07, Herbert Graf <spamBeGonemailinglist3@spam@spam_OUTfarcite.net> wrote:
> I recently went through dependency hell on Ubuntu trying to install a C
> graphics library. Fortunately my extensive experience with pre YUM
> redhat helped me figure things out.
>
If you build from source for this library, will the situation be better?
On 10/23/07, Herbert Graf <TakeThisOuTmailinglist3spamfarcite.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 10:39 +0800, Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> > I can see that. I use BT for downloading Ubuntu before but it is
> > slower than FTP.
>
> Then chances are your firewall wasn't configured correctly.
>
> Bittorrent will "work" if you don't do anything on your firewall/router,
> but it will work MUCH faster if you port forward a series of incoming
> ports to your machine.
>
I do not install BT clients on my machine. So I was using
my brother-in-law's machine. He is using Windows and the built-in
firewall. I think that is not the reason. I think the main reason
is that there are less people downloading Linux here in Singapore.
That affects the BT speed.
> On 10/23/07, Morgan Olsson <RemoveMEost011EraseMEspam_OUTosterlen.tv> wrote:
>
>> I have experienced no problem, but my speed limit is about 61 KByte/s
>> bidirectional. I have sometimes connected over 200 peers, normally
>> but keep it lower to lower protocol bandwidth use.
>
> Hmm, 61KB/s, that is not that fast. Is this your broadband connection
> speed limit?
This is connection limit; radio link
> Or this is the speed limit from BT sites (that is normal then).
BT trackers are only for coordination, i hav never heard of some limiting functionality.
> I have 6Mbps cable online connection by Starhub (upstream only 256kbps).
> It costs me about US$40 per month. And this is the slowest (cheapest)
> from Starhub.
My radio link is only 17US/month, and that is the only radio alternative.
Cable was not until recently available in my location.
I will switch soon for higher downstream rate, but the cable alternatives around here still have the same upstream limit (about a half Mbaud).
But I feel no hurry, i donṫ mind waiting a few days for a distro, and current solution is even good enough to watch missed TV programs.
The "lne" drops in heay rain, but on the other hand there is less risk of lightning damages, compared to have a cable to the network.
> They offer another two speed option. 25Mbps (384kbps
> upstream) costs about US$55 per month and 100Mbps (2Mbps upstream)
> costs about US$80 per month. This is not so cheap considering the
> income here in Singapore.
>
> Normally I can get 300-600kB/s from fast FTP mirror for Ubuntu
> related download.
I see my peers often have that speed for Mandriva Club bittorrents.
The free torrents are slower.
Bittorrent is about sharing; *try* seading at least as much data as you have downloaded. For newly released files, seed more to "build capacity" for others. Mandriva use to release the Club DVD:s a couple days early to registred "early seeders". The deal is you have the chance to get it earlier, but promise to help spreading from the start. I am one.
You recieve from other downloaders (peers) and people who keep seeding after downloaded (or seed fresh) (seeders).
If there is 100 seeders and 10 peers all with only 20KB/s up average, then the 10 peers share 2.2MB/s download.
On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 21:51 +0800, Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> On 10/23/07, Herbert Graf <@spam@mailinglist3RemoveMEEraseMEfarcite.net> wrote:
> > I recently went through dependency hell on Ubuntu trying to install a C
> > graphics library. Fortunately my extensive experience with pre YUM
> > redhat helped me figure things out.
> >
>
> If you build from source for this library, will the situation be better?
I wasn't able to find a .deb for the library, so yes, I was installing
from source, which resulted in the dependancy hell.
Now that I know WHAT I need I'd be able to redo it very quickly, it's
finding out WHAT packages one needs (and what those packages need, and
what those need, and so on) that is the REAL fun! :)
FWIW it was easier under Fedora since when I install with Fedora I just
tell it to install everything, reducing the chance of not having a
package needed.
On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 22:39 +0800, Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> On 10/23/07, Herbert Graf <EraseMEmailinglist3@spam@farcite.net> wrote:
> > On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 10:39 +0800, Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> > > I can see that. I use BT for downloading Ubuntu before but it is
> > > slower than FTP.
> >
> > Then chances are your firewall wasn't configured correctly.
> >
> > Bittorrent will "work" if you don't do anything on your firewall/router,
> > but it will work MUCH faster if you port forward a series of incoming
> > ports to your machine.
> >
>
> I do not install BT clients on my machine. So I was using
> my brother-in-law's machine. He is using Windows and the built-in
> firewall.
Well that's your problem right there. The windows firewall likely
blocked the incoming connections, and that will seriously slow your
speed.
> I think that is not the reason. I think the main reason
> is that there are less people downloading Linux here in Singapore.
> That affects the BT speed.
But that's the point of BT, it doesn't matter WHERE your peers are, they
don't have to be local, and for me rarely are.
It's entirely possible that either you ISP or someone upstream is
limiting your BT bandwidth, perhaps that's an issue?
All I know is that a well seeded torrent EASILY saturates any link I've
got, it's just the nature of how BT works.
Note though that my connection is only 4Mbps down/800kbps up, so what I
consider fast may be a snails pace to people in your part of the world,
where 25Mbps+ connections are common (yes, we're jealous!).
Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> How does this (crash) happen? How many open connections will a
> router support? What is the limiting factor on the router's side
> (RAM, processor power, firmware limitations)?
All of the above =]
That's why Cisco routers are so good - lots of RAM, fast processor and
run a dedicated routing operating system. (Though also why I can't afford
one)
Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> I do not install BT clients on my machine. So I was using
> my brother-in-law's machine. He is using Windows and the built-in
> firewall.
If you are using windows XP SP2, the maximum number of half-open
connections is crippled to merely 8. There are various patches to set
this limit back to SP1's 65535.
That will _seriously_ increase your BT speed if you have lots of peers.
> I think that is not the reason. I think the main reason
> is that there are less people downloading Linux here in Singapore.
> That affects the BT speed.
The nice thing about bittorent is that it is distributed. i.e. it doesn't
matter which country a seeder is from because the speed to/from them will
likely not saturate world-wide internet connections.
On 10/24/07, Brendan Gillatt <@spam@brendanspam_OUT.....brendangillatt.co.uk> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> > I do not install BT clients on my machine. So I was using
> > my brother-in-law's machine. He is using Windows and the built-in
> > firewall.
>
> If you are using windows XP SP2, the maximum number of half-open
> connections is crippled to merely 8. There are various patches to set
> this limit back to SP1's 65535.
>
> That will _seriously_ increase your BT speed if you have lots of peers.
That has been done.
> > I think that is not the reason. I think the main reason
> > is that there are less people downloading Linux here in Singapore.
> > That affects the BT speed.
>
> The nice thing about bittorent is that it is distributed. i.e. it doesn't
> matter which country a seeder is from because the speed to/from them will
> likely not saturate world-wide internet connections.
>
I think that will depend on the torrent.
The other possibility is that the ISP here will limit BT bandwidth. The
court here has ordered two major ISP to give out the lists of user
who downloads Japanese cartoons based on the request of the
company.
On 10/22/07, Xiaofan Chen <spamBeGonexiaofancEraseMEgmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> How does this (crash) happen? How many open connections will a
> router support? What is the limiting factor on the router's side
> (RAM, processor power, firmware limitations)?
>
>
I've seen this happen before. What's happening is that bittorrent is
saturating the upstream bandwidth. In your bittorrent client, you
just need to limit the upload bandwidth being used. For a 1 megabit
connection, around 10kB/sec is appropriate.
On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 20:54 -0400, Paul Anderson wrote:
> On 10/22/07, Xiaofan Chen <RemoveMExiaofanc@spam@spamBeGonegmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > How does this (crash) happen? How many open connections will a
> > router support? What is the limiting factor on the router's side
> > (RAM, processor power, firmware limitations)?
> >
> >
> I've seen this happen before. What's happening is that bittorrent is
> saturating the upstream bandwidth. In your bittorrent client, you
> just need to limit the upload bandwidth being used. For a 1 megabit
> connection, around 10kB/sec is appropriate.
Actually the problem described is very real. P2P applications, by there
very nature, open up many TCP connections at one time, many more the
what most manufacturers expected consumers to do when designing consumer
grade routers.
On top of this, some routers have bugs where closed TCP connects don't
actually get closed (or instead just don't get closed quickly).
The result is many consumer routers choke when P2P applications are
being used heavily. Some just end up slowing things down, others reboot
randomly, some even hard crash, requiring a power cycle.
The situation is getting better, but there are still alot of non optimal
routers.
Herbert Graf wrote:
> On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 10:47 +0800, Xiaofan Chen wrote:
>> On 10/23/07, Nicolas <.....aazhyd@spam@EraseMEgmail.com> wrote:
>>> That's correct. Since I don't have to erase my home partition, it's
>>> quite easy to make a fresh install. It's actually quite a bit faster
>>> than to upgrade too :)
>>>
>> This seems to be true for many Linux distros. Dependency hell
>> (related to the difficulty of upgrading) seems to be more problematic
>> for RPM based distros.
>
> Every Linux distro has that problem, it just used to be way more
> pronounced with RPM based distros since RPM itself has zero dependency
> resolution. With YUM, and a good set of repositories (not the default
> set) the dependency hell is almost as rare as with debian based distros.
From my experience, the most thouroughly tested and bugfixed dependency
tree is from Debian Linux. Dependency issues are by default, critical
release bugs in their policy.
Other distros seem to take a more lazy approach to dependencies, overall.
> I recently went through dependency hell on Ubuntu trying to install a C
> graphics library. Fortunately my extensive experience with pre YUM
> redhat helped me figure things out.
Ubuntu is based off of Debian, but they tend to be lazier than Debian
when it comes to slight package manager "brokenness".
Just an observation from about 10 distros used both personally and
professionally since 1995...
cvsup and the ports tree in FreeBSD is either a blessing or a nightmare,
depending on who uploaded last... same thing with Gentoo "packages"...
their devs are in such a hurry that there's a lot of silly/simple
mistakes that any amount of QA by someone else would find... but they
also fix it very quickly. (Following Gentoo is like building a server
from Gentoo with any updates beyond a specific release is like standing
in a river of flowing quicksand... sometimes you can stand on it and
count on it, other times you're sinking rapidly.)
I think if I needed things that Debian Stable or maybe Testing didn't
provide, I'd use Ubuntu LTS for a serious server machine right now, or
CentOS since it's based on the commercial RHEL varieties.
Fedora is a nightmare of teenagers uploading untested packages into a
system that has a weak package management scheme... always broken/changing.
The main problems with "Desktop Linux" still today, is the ever-changing
nature of the different distros. You can't get any stability unless you
stick with very old (always slightly buggy -- so then you want to
upgrade, and the insanity begins...) applications.
Maybe it'll be stable enough in a few more years. I see that a major
milestone was crossed this week -- ATI is finally releasing binary-only
drivers for Linux for their accelerated graphics cards.
Linux is good for (cheap) servers, but I'll stick with Mac OSX for the
Unix desktop for the time-being...
> The situation is getting better, but there are still alot of non optimal
> routers.
Any router as cheap as most Small-Office/Home Office routers is likely
to have problems like this... cheap is cheap. :-)
Most SOHO router users have no clue how they work, nor care if they're
getting maximum network performance. They just want to see their
animated GIF's with dancing squirrels from Aunt Sally.
Of course, that points out that there are a lot of other "non-optimal"
things about the Internet at-large, too. :-)
On 10/25/07, Nate Duehr <.....nateRemoveMEnatetech.com> wrote:
> From my experience, the most thouroughly tested and bugfixed dependency
> tree is from Debian Linux. Dependency issues are by default, critical
> release bugs in their policy.
Somehow I tried Debian Etch once and I think Ubuntu is way better.
> Other distros seem to take a more lazy approach to dependencies, overall.
>
> > I recently went through dependency hell on Ubuntu trying to install a C
> > graphics library. Fortunately my extensive experience with pre YUM
> > redhat helped me figure things out.
>
> Ubuntu is based off of Debian, but they tend to be lazier than Debian
> when it comes to slight package manager "brokenness".
So far I have not have any problems with Ubuntu as long as you
do not use alien packages.
> Just an observation from about 10 distros used both personally and
> professionally since 1995...
>
> cvsup and the ports tree in FreeBSD is either a blessing or a nightmare,
> depending on who uploaded last...
Very true. I ran FreeBSD 6.2 Stable and I occassionaly track the
kernel and userland (make world) but I simple could not get the port
tree updated due to dependency problems. It is not worth upgrade
gpsim from the port tree since it will pull all the other source
packages like X/gtk/etc and often it is broken. So I give up on
updating sdcc/gputils/gpsim using the port tree.
> same thing with Gentoo "packages"...
> their devs are in such a hurry that there's a lot of silly/simple
> mistakes that any amount of QA by someone else would find... but they
> also fix it very quickly. (Following Gentoo is like building a server
> from Gentoo with any updates beyond a specific release is like standing
> in a river of flowing quicksand... sometimes you can stand on it and
> count on it, other times you're sinking rapidly.)
>
> I think if I needed things that Debian Stable or maybe Testing didn't
> provide, I'd use Ubuntu LTS for a serious server machine right now, or
> CentOS since it's based on the commercial RHEL varieties.
Debian Stable == Ancient? I do not run servers so I do not really
appreciate stability. That being said, I like Ubuntu 6.06 LTS so far.
I tried CentOS 5 but I saw nothing specialy about it and it does
not offer the same packages FC6/FC7 offers.
> Fedora is a nightmare of teenagers uploading untested packages
> into a system that has a weak package management scheme...
> always broken/changing.
I do not play with FC6 (now FC7) too much but it seems not that bad.
> The main problems with "Desktop Linux" still today, is the ever-changing
> nature of the different distros. You can't get any stability unless you
> stick with very old (always slightly buggy -- so then you want to
> upgrade, and the insanity begins...) applications.
You can try versionless system like Arch Linux. I do not use it
extensively due to the broken udev rules. Other than that, it is
quite good. I am not so sure if stability is really a good or bad thing
since Linux is relative young on the desktop arena.
> Maybe it'll be stable enough in a few more years. I see that a major
> milestone was crossed this week -- ATI is finally releasing binary-only
> drivers for Linux for their accelerated graphics cards.
Not so sure if I need to try this but binary-only packages tend to
be problematic from time to time.
> Linux is good for (cheap) servers, but I'll stick with Mac OSX for the
> Unix desktop for the time-being...
>
I think you might be right that Mac OS X is better than Linux/FreeBSD
for desktop users. But Mac tends to be more expensive and Apple
is a closed company. I personally like to dual boot Windows and Linux.
Windows+cygwin offers quite a good unix like envrionment.
many open source programs and libraries got Windows port. Mac
OS is often third-class citizen for many open source programs.
> So far I have not have any problems with Ubuntu as long as you
> do not use alien packages.
>
>
Then either you have been sticking to the more widely used parts of the
repositry or you have been lucky.
Once you move out of the small subset of software in main and into the
wider universe repositry you will find that some software there has
never been tested on ubuntu.
>
> Debian Stable == Ancient? I do not run servers so I do not really
> appreciate stability. That being said, I like Ubuntu 6.06 LTS so far.
> I tried CentOS 5 but I saw nothing specialy about it and it does
> not offer the same packages FC6/FC7 offers.
>
>
Debian is aiming for a stable release every 18-24 months now
(woody-sarge was unacceptablly long but sarge-etch was much better).
I installed 7.10 myself last night, and then downloaded the ubuntu
studio metapackage which downloads a stack of audio related apps plus a
real time kernel.
I've been waiting ages for such a painless way to get a low latency
kernel for audio processing tasks.
>> So far I have not have any problems with Ubuntu as long as you
>> do not use alien packages.
>>
>>
>>
> Then either you have been sticking to the more widely used parts of the
> repositry or you have been lucky.
>
> Once you move out of the small subset of software in main and into the
> wider universe repositry you will find that some software there has
> never been tested on ubuntu.
>
> I installed 7.10 myself last night, and then downloaded the ubuntu
> studio metapackage which downloads a stack of audio related apps plus a
> real time kernel.
>
> I've been waiting ages for such a painless way to get a low latency
> kernel for audio processing tasks.
Ah, you did not try Mandriva.
In Mandriva you for long time have been able to select to have more than one kernel installed.
One choise it "multimedia" which is low latency.
When selecting to install kernels it is also automatically installed in the boot menu so at boot you select.
Some automatic thingy even recompiles video modules and some other magic.
(Some automation have failed ocasionally though. And you must remember to select to install kernel source for the kernel to so it can recompile modules automatically)
Probably some similar automation also exist in other distros.
On 10/23/07, Brendan Gillatt <brendanEraseME@spam@brendangillatt.co.uk> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> > I do not install BT clients on my machine. So I was using
> > my brother-in-law's machine. He is using Windows and the built-in
> > firewall.
>
> If you are using windows XP SP2, the maximum number of half-open
> connections is crippled to merely 8. There are various patches to set
> this limit back to SP1's 65535.
Out of curiosity, how do you tell what the limit of half-open connections
is, and how do you set it back to 65535?
I'm not running bittorrent, but it would explain a few other things on
my system.
Thanks,
Bill
--
Psst... Hey, you... Buddy... Want a kitten? straycatblues.petfinder.org
William Couture wrote:
> Out of curiosity, how do you tell what the limit of half-open connections
> is, and how do you set it back to 65535?
You can tell if you're hitting the half-open limit by firing off many
half open connections as fast as possible (either by running bittorent
with a busy file or making a quick program) and checking the system event
log for warnings.
Chances are, if you are running XP SP2 then you'll have the limit. There
are various patches to get it back to (almost) unlimited. The one I use
is: http://www.lvllord.de/?lang=en&url=downloads.
On 10/22/07, Herbert Graf <RemoveMEmailinglist3spamBeGonefarcite.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 2007-10-21 at 10:35 +0800, Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> > It is not a surprise for me that GUI effects do not work for me.
> > Martin K is right that my ATI9800SE card is the problem. I killed
> > the OpenSuse 10.3 partition since it could not boot after I tried to
> > enable visual effects. ;-(
> >
> > FC7 is better. It hangs but reboot fix the problem. Ubuntu 7.10 is
> > the best. It tells me that visual effects can not be started. So it
> > passed my test. Right now the problem is that no mirror works
>
> That's weird. I've got a Mobility 9600 in my machine and the desktop
> effects seem to work without issue. It's certainly not that fast a card,
> but the effects don't chug at all. TTYL
>
On 10/25/07, Matthew Rhys-Roberts <spamBeGonemattKILLspam@spam@nu-ins.com> wrote:
> I installed 7.10 myself last night, and then downloaded the ubuntu
> studio metapackage which downloads a stack of audio related apps plus a
> real time kernel.
>
> I've been waiting ages for such a painless way to get a low latency
> kernel for audio processing tasks.
>
What does this real time kernel means in the real world?
On Fri, 2007-10-26 at 20:49 +0800, Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> Now it works after I read this:
> amarkovits.blogspot.com/2007/10/ubuntu-710-compiz-ati.html
>
> The desktop effects are kind of cool but not really useful for me.
> But it is good to know that my card works.
Agreed. I actually turned the effects off. First off like you, they just
don't seem to add anything to usability. Second, my laptop ran hotter
since any GUI thing seemed to up CPU usage. Third, my system was less
stable, I had cases where the GUI wouldn't respond after coming out of
hibernate.
On 10/26/07, Herbert Graf <mailinglist3spam_OUT@spam@farcite.net> wrote:
> > The desktop effects are kind of cool but not really useful for me.
> > But it is good to know that my card works.
>
> Agreed. I actually turned the effects off. First off like you, they just
> don't seem to add anything to usability. Second, my laptop ran hotter
> since any GUI thing seemed to up CPU usage. Third, my system was less
> stable, I had cases where the GUI wouldn't respond after coming out of
> hibernate.
>
> Still, it is neat to show off! :) TTYL
Yes I tried the Normal and Extra Setting and then decided to turned the
feature off because it kind of hurts my eyes. I also installed the extra
package ( sudo apt-get install compizconfig-settings-manager) and
there are a lot of settings. I will try them just to see how "cool" they
can be. ;-)
> On 10/26/07, Herbert Graf <spamBeGonemailinglist3@spam@farcite.net> wrote:
>
>>> The desktop effects are kind of cool but not really useful for me.
>>> But it is good to know that my card works.
>>>
>> Agreed. I actually turned the effects off. First off like you, they just
>> don't seem to add anything to usability. Second, my laptop ran hotter
>> since any GUI thing seemed to up CPU usage. Third, my system was less
>> stable, I had cases where the GUI wouldn't respond after coming out of
>> hibernate.
>>
>> Still, it is neat to show off! :) TTYL
>>
>
> Yes I tried the Normal and Extra Setting and then decided to turned the
> feature off because it kind of hurts my eyes. I also installed the extra
> package ( sudo apt-get install compizconfig-settings-manager) and
> there are a lot of settings. I will try them just to see how "cool" they
> can be. ;-)
>
>
> Xiaofan
>
set your minimise animation to "random" then "show deskop" (bottom left
corner of screen in gnome) with a bunch of open windows.
Nifty ++ ;->
Only problem i have with compiz is if i play a 3d/open-GL game inside
it, sometimes compiz pops it into a window rather than it taking up the
full screen, usually about 10 minutes into the game when I'm just about
to do make somebody else die in a particularly interesting way.
On 10/25/07, peter green <RemoveMEplugwashEraseMEKILLspamp10link.net> wrote:
>
> > So far I have not have any problems with Ubuntu as long as you
> > do not use alien packages.
> >
> >
> Then either you have been sticking to the more widely used parts of the
> repositry or you have been lucky.
I think this has something to do with the fact that I use the single CD
installation method (I did use the DVD once with Ubuntu 5.10 because
I ran into problem with the CD version). After that I just install what I
need as it goes.
Now I am in the process of 2nd round of updating the Fedore Core 7
upgrade. The first round is about 200MB. This one is about 400MB.
Not so sure about the 3rd round (KDE, OpenOffice and tetex
and they are useful occasionally). I always used the multiple CD
or DVD edition for Fedora Core Linux (so far FC3/4/5/6/7) and I
follow the standard installation which install many packages by default.
I have not touched the installation and already two packages failed the
dependency test for upgrading (BackupPC and Gnomegames) and
I will remove them.
I am using the same mirror (ftp://mirror.pacific.net.au) for FC7 and
Ubuntu installations. It seems to me Synaptic/apt is faster than
yumex/yum even if the amount of upgrade is the same. Maybe RPM
dependency checking takes more time than deb. I am not sure.
> Now I am in the process of 2nd round of updating the Fedore Core 7
> upgrade. The first round is about 200MB. This one is about 400MB.
> Not so sure about the 3rd round (KDE, OpenOffice and tetex
> and they are useful occasionally). I always used the multiple CD
> or DVD edition for Fedora Core Linux (so far FC3/4/5/6/7) and I
> follow the standard installation which install many packages by default.
> I have not touched the installation and already two packages failed the
> dependency test for upgrading (BackupPC and Gnomegames) and
> I will remove them.
>
> I am using the same mirror (ftp://mirror.pacific.net.au) for FC7 and
> Ubuntu installations. It seems to me Synaptic/apt is faster than
> yumex/yum even if the amount of upgrade is the same. Maybe RPM
> dependency checking takes more time than deb. I am not sure.
>
Just finished the 2nd round. Looks like I will have another two
rounds of update process. I just checked I need to download
579MB for the remaining updates and again 3 packages failed
the dependency test.
Take note this is a fresh install from the downloaded DVD ISO.
> On 10/27/07, Xiaofan Chen <xiaofanc@spam@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Now I am in the process of 2nd round of updating the Fedore Core 7
> > upgrade. The first round is about 200MB. This one is about 400MB.
> > Not so sure about the 3rd round (KDE, OpenOffice and tetex
> > and they are useful occasionally). I always used the multiple CD
> > or DVD edition for Fedora Core Linux (so far FC3/4/5/6/7) and I
> > follow the standard installation which install many packages by default.
> > I have not touched the installation and already two packages failed the
> > dependency test for upgrading (BackupPC and Gnomegames) and
> > I will remove them.
> >
> > I am using the same mirror (ftp://mirror.pacific.net.au) for FC7 and
> > Ubuntu installations. It seems to me Synaptic/apt is faster than
> > yumex/yum even if the amount of upgrade is the same. Maybe RPM
> > dependency checking takes more time than deb. I am not sure.
> >
>
> Just finished the 2nd round. Looks like I will have another two
> rounds of update process. I just checked I need to download
> 579MB for the remaining updates and again 3 packages failed
> the dependency test.
>
> Take note this is a fresh install from the downloaded DVD ISO.
>
I decided that it is too much trouble to download 579MB of files
so I removed tetex and openoffice since I will not use FC7 as
a main desktop anyway.
I would like to update KDE but I kept having problem with dependencies
for kdepim. I ended up removed most of the KDE packages except
the very minimum kde-libs and kdesdk (for testing of Piklab). Still I can not
get it done. So finally I removed KDE altogether. Now I know what depednecy
hell means to Fedora Core Linux.
I'd like to remove evolution as well but it has too many dependencies
for Gnome so I updated it.
17:24:11 : Package Queue:
17:24:11 : Packages to update
17:24:11 : ---> evolution - 2.10.3-4.fc7.i386
17:24:11 : ---> evolution-data-server - 1.10.3.1-2.fc7.i386
17:24:11 : ---> evolution-data-server-devel - 1.10.3.1-2.fc7.i386
17:24:11 : ---> kdelibs - 6:3.5.7-22.fc7.i386
17:24:11 : ---> kdelibs-devel - 6:3.5.7-22.fc7.i386
17:24:11 : ---> kdesdk - 3.5.7-7.fc7.i386
17:24:11 : Preparing for install/remove/update
17:24:12 : --> Preparing for a full update
17:24:12 : --> Running transaction check
17:24:12 : ---> Package kdelibs-devel.i386 6:3.5.7-22.fc7 set to be updated
17:24:12 : ---> Package kdelibs.i386 6:3.5.7-22.fc7 set to be updated
17:24:12 : --> Processing Dependency: kde-settings >= 3.5 for package: kdelibs
17:24:12 : --> Processing Dependency: kde-filesystem for package: kdelibs
17:24:12 : ---> Package kdesdk.i386 0:3.5.7-7.fc7 set to be updated
17:24:13 : --> Processing Dependency: perl(DCOP) for package: kdesdk
17:24:13 : --> Processing Dependency: libkcal.so.2 for package: kdesdk
17:24:13 : ---> Package evolution-data-server-devel.i386
0:1.10.3.1-2.fc7 set to be updated
17:24:13 : ---> Package evolution-data-server.i386 0:1.10.3.1-2.fc7
set to be updated
17:24:13 : ---> Package evolution.i386 0:2.10.3-4.fc7 set to be updated
17:24:13 : --> Running transaction check
17:24:13 : ---> Package kdepim.i386 6:3.5.7-10.svn20070926.ent.fc7 set
to be updated
17:24:13 : --> Processing Dependency: libopensync.so.0 for package: kdepim
17:24:13 : --> Processing Dependency: libosengine.so.0 for package: kdepim
17:24:13 : --> Processing Dependency: libgnokii.so.3 for package: kdepim
17:24:13 : --> Processing Dependency: spambayes for package: kdepim
17:24:13 : --> Processing Dependency: libmal.so.0 for package: kdepim
17:24:13 : ---> Package kde-filesystem.noarch 0:3.92-9.fc7 set to be updated
17:24:13 : ---> Package kde-settings.noarch 0:3.5-30.fc7 set to be updated
17:24:13 : --> Running transaction check
17:24:13 : ---> Package spambayes.noarch 0:1.0.4-5.fc7 set to be updated
17:24:13 : ---> Package kdepim.i386 6:3.5.7-10.svn20070926.ent.fc7 set
to be updated
17:24:13 : --> Processing Dependency: libopensync.so.0 for package: kdepim
17:24:13 : --> Processing Dependency: libosengine.so.0 for package: kdepim
17:24:13 : --> Processing Dependency: libmal.so.0 for package: kdepim
17:24:13 : ---> Package gnokii.i386 0:0.6.14-3.fc7 set to be updated
17:24:14 : --> Finished Dependency Resolution
17:24:18 : Error in Dependency Resolution
17:24:18 : Missing Dependency: libosengine.so.0 is needed by package kdepim
Missing Dependency: libmal.so.0 is needed by package kdepim
Missing Dependency: libopensync.so.0 is needed by package kdepim
On 10/27/07, Xiaofan Chen <RemoveMExiaofancKILLspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:
> I decided that it is too much trouble to download 579MB of files
> so I removed tetex and openoffice since I will not use FC7 as
> a main desktop anyway.
>
> I would like to update KDE but I kept having problem with dependencies
> for kdepim. I ended up removed most of the KDE packages except
> the very minimum kde-libs and kdesdk (for testing of Piklab). Still I can not
> get it done. So finally I removed KDE altogether. Now I know what depednecy
> hell means to Fedora Core Linux.
>
> I'd like to remove evolution as well but it has too many dependencies
> for Gnome so I updated it.
After sorting out the update issues, FC7 is actually quite ok. I easily
build my favorite packages gputils/sdcc/gpsim/libusb/pyusb/lpcusb
and pk2/pyk without issues. Since I have removed KDE, I could not
build Piklab. I will try the command line piklab-prog later.
gmail.com> wrote:
