Post by thread:[OT] Why Nokia N810 or Amazon Kindle

blog.wired.com/gadgets/2007/11/nokia-n810-inte.html http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000FI73MA/ref=pd_sl_aw_manual-1_kindle1_40650458_3 I used to be very much into gadgets, in particular PDAs. In fact, I have three PDAs and my wife has used some electronic dictionaries with some basic PDA functionality and programing capability. But then PDA is said to be die a slow death with the rising of Smart Phones (including PDA phones). So I am not so sure why Internet tablets like N810 or eBook reader like Amazon Kindles are anything exciting. Anyway, my year 2002 Pocket PC or even the year 2000 Palm PDA can be a good ebook reader. My 2002 Pocker PC (with a add-on wifi card) can also browse the Internet. And the new cell phones have wifi built-in and have relative good screens (iPhone, N95, O2 Xda, etc). For N810 maybe one thing is that it is based on Linux. But there are other Linux PDA or PDA phones. Xiaofan

Xiaofan Chen wrote: > blog.wired.com/gadgets/2007/11/nokia-n810-inte.html > www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000FI73MA/ref=pd_sl_aw_manual-1_kindle1_40650458_3 > > I used to be very much into gadgets, in particular PDAs. In fact, I have > three PDAs and my wife has used some electronic dictionaries with some > basic PDA functionality and programing capability. But then PDA > is said to be die a slow death with the rising of Smart Phones (including > PDA phones). So I am not so sure why Internet tablets like N810 or > eBook reader like Amazon Kindles are anything exciting. Anyway, > my year 2002 Pocket PC or even the year 2000 Palm PDA can be a > good ebook reader. My 2002 Pocker PC (with a add-on wifi card) can > also browse the Internet. And the new cell phones have wifi built-in > and have relative good screens (iPhone, N95, O2 Xda, etc). I don't understand the Kindle, at $400 + subscription I find it difficult to justify. I have the Nokia 770. I like it except the WiFi can't be told to stay awake even if plugged in (I found a hack, setup an NFS share and the 770 won't go to sleep). I can put pdf's and other documents on the 770 but it's not real good for reading. I use it for HA control and receiving information. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry spam_OUTncherryTakeThisOuTlinuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

{Quote hidden}>-----Original Message----- >From: piclist-bouncesKILLspammit.edu [.....piclist-bouncesKILLspam.....mit.edu] >On Behalf Of Xiaofan Chen >Sent: 21 November 2007 05:13 >To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. >Subject: [OT] Why Nokia N810 or Amazon Kindle > > >blog.wired.com/gadgets/2007/11/nokia-n810-inte.html >www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000FI73MA/ref=pd_sl_aw_ >manual-1_kindle1_40650458_3 > >I used to be very much into gadgets, in particular PDAs. In >fact, I have three PDAs and my wife has used some electronic >dictionaries with some basic PDA functionality and programing >capability. But then PDA is said to be die a slow death with >the rising of Smart Phones (including PDA phones). So I am not >so sure why Internet tablets like N810 or eBook reader like >Amazon Kindles are anything exciting. Anyway, my year 2002 >Pocket PC or even the year 2000 Palm PDA can be a good ebook >reader. My 2002 Pocker PC (with a add-on wifi card) can also >browse the Internet. And the new cell phones have wifi >built-in and have relative good screens (iPhone, N95, O2 Xda, etc). > >For N810 maybe one thing is that it is based on Linux. But >there are other Linux PDA or PDA phones. The N810 and the N770(which I own) have a big advantage over smart phones in the size of the screen. 800x480 is just about large enough to browse many web sites without having to continuously scroll left and right to see the entire page (though the occaisional web site is still awkward). The typical 320x200, or even the better 640x480 resolution displays on PDAs are very tiresome to browse with. Regards Mike ======================================================================= This e-mail is intended for the person it is addressed to only. The information contained in it may be confidential and/or protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you must not make any use of this information, or copy or show it to any person. Please contact us immediately to tell us that you have received this e-mail, and return the original to us. Any use, forwarding, printing or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. No part of this message can be considered a request for goods or services. =======================================================================

Xiaofan Chen wrote: > On Nov 21, 2007 2:11 PM, Neil Cherry <EraseMEncherryspam_OUTTakeThisOuTcomcast.net> wrote: > >> I don't understand the Kindle, at $400 + subscription I find it >> difficult to justify. > > Maybe because it is based on Linux and has EVDO. > http://blog.rlove.org/2007/11/kindle-powered-by-linux.html At $400 a black and white (and shades of grey?) screen seems hard to justify. It is good that it runs Linux. Now when the service is discontinued I'll be able to pick it up cheap at Tiger Direct ;-) and hack it into something more usable. Oddly enough, it seems these types of devices (3Com Audrey, Nokia 770/800/810 etc.) all seemed to be priced around $400 when they come out. A starter laptop can be had for a little more. I think they need to think around $200 not $400. On one of the reviews for the Kindle I read someone's comment about how Amazon dropped the support of Ebooks and the loss of a collection of book from an OS upgrade and lack of support for that OS. Then a note about the DRM on the new format. This started to make me nervous about using such products. Besides I still can't scribble my comments on the pages as I read the chapters. That is one feature in books I find hard to give up. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherryspam_OUTlinuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

> I don't understand the Kindle, at $400 + subscription I was under the impression that there's no subscription for it. There's a lot to love and a lot to hate there. For me, $400 would be an acceptable price for me to have one small item that I can carry around to replace my ever-growing collection of periodicals. However, Make, ReadyMade and Dwell would NOT work on a grayscale screen. As for books, I LIKE having a dusty shelf of paperbacks (or, you know, 25 shelves). Where it really shines is the $8-$10 price for new release books. A lot of people are whining "$8-$10? I can buy a BOOK for $7 or less!". Bollocks. You can buy a trade paperback of a book that's been in print for several months and is popular enough to warrant a paperback run for $7. NYT bestsellers, which they claim to have in ebook format for the Kindle for $10 or less, are NEVER $7 paperbacks. If you're lucky and you belong to a good book club, you can get them for $20 in hardback. Or, wait a few months for the paperback. All that said, I think it'll end up being a boondoggle and will completely fail to revolutionize reading. But then, some people (not I) thought that the iPod would be a failure, too. :-) Mike H.

Neil Cherry wrote: > > On one of the reviews for the Kindle I read someone's comment > about how Amazon dropped the support of Ebooks and the loss of > a collection of book from an OS upgrade and lack of support for > that OS. Then a note about the DRM on the new format. This > started to make me nervous about using such products. Besides > I still can't scribble my comments on the pages as I read the > chapters. That is one feature in books I find hard to give up. > > I will never buy DRM infected books. I would like to reserve my right to resell my book, give it to a friend, etc. Until "electronic paper" comes about, I suspect I will always find it more fatiguing to read an LCD than it will be to read pigment on pulp. - MK

> All that said, I think it'll end up being a boondoggle and will > completely fail to revolutionize reading. But then, some people > (not I) thought that the iPod would be a failure, too. :-) > > Mike H. With the iPod, people actually saw a need to carry around their entire music collection and be able to listen to it without having to lugging suitecases around. What's more, people could now burn their CDs and load them up, for free into their ipod, and even carry their photo library with them. But a $400 device that won't allow you to put your own material in it, such as word docs, etc, without paying a fee? Hah! As for me, I'm not interested in such a device, even for $100 bucks. For $400, I'd put another $400 on it and buy a nice light weight laptop. Then I'd carry all my reading material, be able to read stuff on the internet for free (never mind the ISP fee, as you can pay ~$60/month for some sort of broadband or ~$60/month for a data plan using a card from sprint/verizon), do some real work whenever needed, and more. Sure, the book reader thing probably uses less power than a laptop, but recently I didn't feel the need to read anything where there was not a power outlet around in case my battery got low. -Mario ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.

Martin wrote: > Neil Cherry wrote: >> On one of the reviews for the Kindle I read someone's comment >> about how Amazon dropped the support of Ebooks and the loss of >> a collection of book from an OS upgrade and lack of support for >> that OS. Then a note about the DRM on the new format. This >> started to make me nervous about using such products. Besides >> I still can't scribble my comments on the pages as I read the >> chapters. That is one feature in books I find hard to give up. >> >> > > I will never buy DRM infected books. I would like to reserve my right to > resell my book, give it to a friend, etc. Until "electronic paper" comes Resell your book? I never get rid of my books (except the pile of books from the 1970's on computer ;-). Seriously, I agree with you, DRM is a pain. I realize that the vendors need a way to protect their products. It's just that the product is so inconvenient that I won't use it. I don't like dongles, online subscription and various other little methods. Now I do purchase software (even for Linux), I've purchased Eagle, CSS (PIC compiler) and other software which I can't remember). > about, I suspect I will always find it more fatiguing to read an LCD > than it will be to read pigment on pulp. I agree but I think proper lighting helps. Paper is easier to properly light as it doesn't have a harsh reflection. Monitors, even flat screen and non-reflective have glare problems. I tend to prefer natural light for my needs. I have been using CF lamps in the high watt range to good effect, very bright but with some glare. One huge advantage to paper is that I can highlight and comment which I can't do with electronic means. One other thing I can't do well on electronic media and that is draw. My note books/whiteboards are filled with drawings that take a few minutes to do but take hours to get into the correct format on a computer. I've had some luck with taking photos but at my place of work cameras are not allowed. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry KILLspamncherryKILLspamlinuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

Michael Rigby-Jones wrote: {Quote hidden}>>I used to be very much into gadgets, in particular PDAs. In >>fact, I have three PDAs and my wife has used some electronic >>dictionaries with some basic PDA functionality and programing >>capability. But then PDA is said to be die a slow death with >>the rising of Smart Phones (including PDA phones). So I am not >>so sure why Internet tablets like N810 or eBook reader like >>Amazon Kindles are anything exciting. Anyway, my year 2002 >>Pocket PC or even the year 2000 Palm PDA can be a good ebook >>reader. My 2002 Pocker PC (with a add-on wifi card) can also >>browse the Internet. And the new cell phones have wifi >>built-in and have relative good screens (iPhone, N95, O2 Xda, etc). >> >>For N810 maybe one thing is that it is based on Linux. But >>there are other Linux PDA or PDA phones. > > The N810 and the N770(which I own) have a big advantage over smart phones > in the size of the screen. 800x480 is just about large enough to browse > many web sites without having to continuously scroll left and right to see > the entire page (though the occaisional web site is still awkward). The > typical 320x200, or even the better 640x480 resolution displays on PDAs > are very tiresome to browse with. I agree, the resolution is really impressive. It feels a little sluggish however, websites seem to take a long time to load, even over a fast wireless connection. We got the N800 from Nokia, in exchange for some scan tools. :) They have an open source project for car diagnostics that has some neat-looking gauges: <openbossa.indt.org/carman/screenshots.html> <http://tabletblog.com/2007/02/carman-bluetooth-elmscan-5-and-n800.html> By the way, is there a way to change screen orientation? It would seem that "portrait" orientation would be more appropriate for books. Vitaliy

On 11/22/07, Vitaliy <RemoveMEspamTakeThisOuTmaksimov.org> wrote: > Michael Rigby-Jones wrote: > > The N810 and the N770(which I own) have a big advantage over smart phones > > in the size of the screen. 800x480 is just about large enough to browse > > many web sites without having to continuously scroll left and right to see > > the entire page (though the occaisional web site is still awkward). The > > typical 320x200, or even the better 640x480 resolution displays on PDAs > > are very tiresome to browse with. > > I agree, the resolution is really impressive. It feels a little sluggish > however, websites seem to take a long time to load, even over a fast > wireless connection. If you really want to browse the REAL Internet, 800x480 is not enough. Many website are now at least optimized for 1024x768. > By the way, is there a way to change screen orientation? It would seem that > "portrait" orientation would be more appropriate for books. > Even my year 2002 pocket PC can do it. And I've read many ebooks on it (English and Chinese), it works fine. FYI, my pocket PC is an obsoleted HP Jornada 565. The battery is still running fine after 5 years. The old HP quality was good. Xiaofan

On 11/22/07, Neil Cherry <spamBeGonencherryspamBeGonecomcast.net> wrote: > > about, I suspect I will always find it more fatiguing to read an LCD > > than it will be to read pigment on pulp. > > I agree but I think proper lighting helps. Paper is easier to > properly light as it doesn't have a harsh reflection. Monitors, > even flat screen and non-reflective have glare problems. I tend > to prefer natural light for my needs. I have been using CF lamps > in the high watt range to good effect, very bright but with some > glare. Actually reading eBooks on the PocketPC is not bad. One advantage is that the CF/SD cards are now so cheap and they can store so many eBooks. There are also so many free content on the Internet. My main reading was those KungFu Chinese novels and some traditional Chinese literatures, dictionaries and some classic English literatures. http://www.xys.org/library.html http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/ebooks/ Now my wife is using it as a dictionary. > One huge advantage to paper is that I can highlight and > comment which I can't do with electronic means. One other thing > I can't do well on electronic media and that is draw. My note > books/whiteboards are filled with drawings that take a few minutes > to do but take hours to get into the correct format on a computer. > I've had some luck with taking photos but at my place of work > cameras are not allowed. > That is correct. For serious readings, it is always better to have the book or printout. Tablet PC is supposed to solve the problem but I find it not as good. That being said, more and more local doctors here are using tablet PCs. Xiaofan

On 11/22/07, Xiaofan Chen <TakeThisOuTxiaofancEraseMEspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote: > On 11/22/07, Vitaliy <RemoveMEspamTakeThisOuTmaksimov.org> wrote: > > By the way, is there a way to change screen orientation? It would seem that > > "portrait" orientation would be more appropriate for books. > > > > Even my year 2002 pocket PC can do it. And I've read many ebooks on > it (English and Chinese), it works fine. FYI, my pocket PC is an obsoleted > HP Jornada 565. The battery is still running fine after 5 years. The old > HP quality was good. > Just read this: http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/08/04/the-nokia-n800-as-an-e-book-reader-a-review-and-some-fbreader-tips/ So a PDA is really better than Nokia 800 for eBook reading. But you can change the screen of Nokia 800 screen orientation with proper software. Xiaofan

> Actually reading eBooks on the PocketPC is not bad. > One advantage is that the CF/SD cards are now so > cheap and they can store so many eBooks. There > are also so many free content on the Internet. My > main reading was those KungFu Chinese novels and > some traditional Chinese literatures, dictionaries > and some classic English literatures. > http://www.xys.org/library.html > http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/ebooks/ In this time-deprived, information overloaded world, eBook is only good for references, most of my "readings" are through the audio book and podcasts during the time I cannot hold something up to read. There are so many paper-based materials or emails to clear when one do find time to read. The first time I tried a compaq PDA, I thought the device was a joke. Till now I still cannot comprehend a device that will loose the valuable information that it is supposed to hold when it looses its power like one forget to charge the device. So I got a lot of catchup to do when I bought the N95. The N95, a total different beast, that FAR exceeded my expectation. It is: cell phone + 5M pixel camera with flash + MP3 players with decent builtin speakers + GPS + Car Navigation device + dictionaries + calculator + sport tracker + digital video camera + video player + traveler alarm clock + VOIP phone + wifi webcam + torchlight + flash player for all the educational contents for my kids + other PDA functions. Ling SM

On 11/22/07, SM Ling <sm.ling11EraseME.....gmail.com> wrote: > In this time-deprived, information overloaded world, eBook is only > good for references, most of my "readings" are through the audio book > and podcasts during the time I cannot hold something up to read. > There are so many paper-based materials or emails to clear when one do > find time to read. I am not so much into podcast and audio book. Actually I listen to BBC radio everyday through my trusted Sony portable Radio. > The first time I tried a compaq PDA, I thought the device was a joke. > Till now I still cannot comprehend a device that will loose the > valuable information that it is supposed to hold when it looses its > power like one forget to charge the device. But you are supposed to sync the device with the PC. I have a Palm IIIxe 8M PDA and I regretted to buy it since it does not offer expansion. But it is actually not too bad in terms of other functionality (as an organizer, a ebook reader, as a dictionary and as a calculator). The HP Jornada 565 is way better with the CF card (I have some CF cards and a CF wifi card). I was very excited about it when I bought it in 2002. > So I got a lot of catchup to do when I bought the N95. The N95, a > total different beast, that FAR exceeded my expectation. It is: > cell phone + 5M pixel camera with flash + MP3 players with decent > builtin speakers + GPS + Car Navigation device + dictionaries + > calculator + sport tracker + digital video camera + video player + > traveler alarm clock + VOIP phone + wifi webcam + torchlight + flash > player for all the educational contents for my kids + other PDA > functions. > Hmm, N95 is nice. But so far I resist the temptation of using a PDA phone or smart phone as I am not a road warrior. My wife got the Nokia 6280 and it is pretty good already. I am still interested in the internal working mechanism (tear down) of the gadgets but I am no longer interested that much to buy them. I am using a simple MP3 player, still listens Radio more often than MP3, still not using Skype, not into social networking, my blog is rather plain, got no personal domain, not into gaming (but sometimes I enjoy watching other people playing), still not so much into podcast, not using p2p, still use a 3.3M pixel digital camera. Am I getting old? Or this is simplely because I am rather poor now as I need to pay for the housing loan. ;-) Xiaofan

> I am not so much into podcast and audio book. Actually I listen > to BBC radio everyday through my trusted Sony portable Radio. XiaoFan, I think there are too many mismatches of the radio broadcaster live schedule and the listener's life. You may want to try listening to the BBC through the podcast way. You can subscribe to some of the BBC radio programme through a PC fetching software like, ipodder. You feed the iPodder what you want it to check and fetch. And when ipodder has something for you, you can either play it on your PC or download (or sync) the MP3 program to your portable MP3 player. I used to download them onto my MP3 player, but now the N95 has a built-in function like ipodder, I can play the programme off N95 after it has fetched the content. If you like this way of listening to radio broadcast, you can pick and choose other quality broadcast (and non-broadcast) programmes from other parts of the world. Some of my favorites are: ABC - The Health Report and Dr Karl's Great Moments in Science BBC - Documemtary Archive and Peter's Day's World of Business. NPR - Science Friday Cheers, Ling SM

Xiaofan Chen wrote: > If you really want to browse the REAL Internet, 800x480 is not enough. > Many > website are now at least optimized for 1024x768. FWIW, IMO, "optimized for X" is stupid thing for a website to say (X = browser, resolution, specific technology). A website should adjust for whatever resolution is in use on the user's computer. Current technologies allow this (within reason). Back when we designed our website (2005) we looked at the access logs, and designed for the least common denominator (800x600). Now, I would definitely insist on making a "rubber" website -- because of the wide range of resolutions out there. Screens 800 pixels wide are still actively being manufactured, but screens with a 1920x1600 resolution are now becoming reasonably common. It's wasteful and not aesthetically pleasing to have a website take up just 1/3 of the screen's real estate. Vitaliy

> FWIW, IMO, "optimized for X" is stupid thing for a website to > say IMHO it is an utterly arrogant thing to do [ I can live with 'say' :) ]. Even if I have the intended resolution on my monitor, who are they to insist that I dedicate my full screen to just their website? But insisting that I watch some stupid video first before I get access to the main website (even though I don't have the required player installed!) is even worse. I guess such a website does not want my attention, and guess, they get what they (don't) want! Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

On 11/21/07, Neil Cherry <EraseMEncherrycomcast.net> wrote: > > www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000FI73MA/ref=pd_sl_aw_manual-1_kindle1_40650458_3 > > >> I don't understand the Kindle, at $400 + subscription I find it > difficult to justify. It is said that the Amazon Kindle was sold out but they did not provide the real data. It is also said that a color screen is now under developing from the screen provider. Maybe we need another year to see if the Kindle can survive. Xiaofan

On Nov 25, 2007, at 5:08 PM, Xiaofan Chen wrote: > It is said that the Amazon Kindle was sold out I really don't get it. I bought one of the early eBooks, but it was really before its time (NiMH battery, no flash, 8M total storage, relatively big.) It's been clear to ME that what I really want is something like a combination eBook and PDA, and maybe a phone/camera, because those are the places where the screen sizes match up with the functionality I'd like to have. 4x6inch LCD in a 5x7 platform would be a fine PDA or eBook, I think (but a lousy phone.) But eBooks never seem to run PalmOS or WinCE and don't often have any functions beyond the eBook reader; I don't know that anyone wants yet another single-function device clogging their life. Likewise the shrinking phone isn't very compatible with the desire to have web browsing and email in the same thing. (But we'll see how the bluetooth headset developments change that - perhaps the future all-in-one is a bigger base unit with eBook/web/email capability and a higher functionality headset for accessing the phone functions. Kindle has some interesting features, but they don't seem to be the ones I'm looking for. And it's expensive... BillW

Xiaofan Chen wrote: > On 11/21/07, Neil Cherry <RemoveMEncherryEraseMEEraseMEcomcast.net> wrote: > >>> www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000FI73MA/ref=pd_sl_aw_manual-1_kindle1_40650458_3 >>> >>> I don't understand the Kindle, at $400 + subscription I find it >>> >> difficult to justify. >> > > It is said that the Amazon Kindle was sold out but they did not > provide the real data. It is also said that a color screen is > now under developing from the screen provider. > > Maybe we need another year to see if the Kindle can survive. > > Xiaofan > I heard a report on NPR about the Kindle, it actually does have an "electronic paper" display, and is very low power. The display is easily readable in sunlight, being either reflective or "transflective" (my inference). The interviewee stressed the point that it only uses energy while changing pages. This makes it slightly more interesting. It's still not worth my $400. Maybe 150 or 200. - Martin

Martin wrote: {Quote hidden}> Xiaofan Chen wrote: > >> On 11/21/07, Neil Cherry <RemoveMEncherryspam_OUTKILLspamcomcast.net> wrote: >> >> >>>> www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000FI73MA/ref=pd_sl_aw_manual-1_kindle1_40650458_3 >>>> >>>> I don't understand the Kindle, at $400 + subscription I find it >>>> >>>> >>> difficult to justify. >>> >>> >> It is said that the Amazon Kindle was sold out but they did not >> provide the real data. It is also said that a color screen is >> now under developing from the screen provider. >> >> Maybe we need another year to see if the Kindle can survive. >> >> Xiaofan >> >> > > I heard a report on NPR about the Kindle, it actually does have an > "electronic paper" display, and is very low power. The display is easily > readable in sunlight, being either reflective or "transflective" (my > inference). The interviewee stressed the point that it only uses energy > while changing pages. This makes it slightly more interesting. It's > still not worth my $400. Maybe 150 or 200. > - > Martin > Most that I've seen so far seems the Kindle is similar to my Sony Reader. Looks like has a little more I/O however (more buttons). I've noticed that the e-ink is quite good at high light levels. Where I'm not real impressed is low light, the 20W light at my bed. That light level is fine for real books, but there's not enough contrast between the characters and background at that level. At least with the Sony I can create my own content. Just needs better navigation. I'm still waiting for the NewsPad (see : 2001 : A Space Odyssey) Jim