Post by thread:[PIC:] 16f688 bootloader anyone?

any one happen to have a pic16f688 bootloader? i'm building my programmer this week (and i will be releasing it and it's code on the pic site etc., after writing said code also hopefully this week), but it would be nice to be able to have users able to upgrade later (i may eventually make a little money, it's a clock chipping toy, i'll put a link in my sig line when it works, more advanced chipping may follow). i'll be using said chip because of it's size. i don't think i'll have trouble writing code for what i need to do, but if someone already has a bootloader working i can avoid worrying about that part. if no one has one i'll try writing one and if it works i'll definitely make it available (though i'm not letting out the rest of my design right away, i'd really like to at least make back my startup cost for things like the programer, having boards made, etc.), though if i break even and make enough money for my next project i'll more than likely release the whole thing (besides, the board is so crowded you really wouldn't want to try and copy it, 6 hours for 27 connections with 3 chips! and i've done layout before, it's just very, very crowded for 2 layers). any help would obviously be appreciated, and would probably mean i owed you a favor or at least a large discount (labor i can give away, parts i usually can't). thanks in advance either way, and like i said if i have to bang one out myself i'll definitely post it. oh, and by bootloader, in this case i mean something that can update the code through the built in serial port that will be connected to the users machine (i'll probably have to write a little code for the computer end as well unless i use a common exchange format like kermit or whatever which i'm not terribly familiar with yet, not in the details at least). on the other hand, a bootloader for any format/interface would be a good start. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

first: you are correct. i've mostly been looking at the programming spec recently since i've been designing my programmer. i had ass-u-me-ed that all of the newer parts were self programmable, but i see that this one is not. this is my first pic project, i'm still reading the data sheet and haven't started programming yet so i haven't read every page in both manuals yet (i have read every page in the programming spec at least once). like i said, i just assumed that all modern pic devices were capable in this regard, my mistake. the manual specifically for the 16f688 does clearly say it can't write it's own program memory more clearly later in the manual than what you quoted. like most data sheets/manuals it could be written more clearly, though it's not bad and i've definitely seen worse. gee, please excuse my ignorance (which would have been very temporary, i do learn rapidly). second: yes, there is a defect in my keyboard, it does not automagically capitalize, spell check (though the email program does...) or grammar check. i am highly dyslexic and dysgraphic - capitalization is actually harder for me than grammar and nearly as hard as spelling. when it really matters, i try to capitalize while typing and check and correct capitalization before sending (which for me takes substantial effort). however email is generally considered a casual communication protocol so no, i don't usually bother with that. not because i'm lazy, not because i'm dumb (like many with dyslexia i actually have a genius iq, yeah, yeah capitalization, here "genius IQ"). get over it, i did a long, long time ago. i'm 41 and i don't mind admitting that i repeated kindergarten, i was lucky my learning problems were spotted and properly dealt with considering it was the late 60's and early 70's before learning disabilities were as well understood as they are now. ten years earlier or in a different school i probably would have been labeled "dumb". be glad you aren't reading my handwriting which is highly readable but where i randomly use upper and lower case letters and where i'm not consistent with capitalization even for the same word when used again. i was taught cursive/script writing many, many times but was never able to adapt to it at all. i had several years of speech therapy and 1 year of eye therapy just to be able to read. i read far more slowly than most when i read fiction (and i read little fiction due to this unfortunately). however, when i read dense technical tomes i do so faster and with far better comprehension than most and am often annoyed at the bad grammar and syntax use in such technical tomes. grammar and syntax problems bother me, capitalization doesn't. unfortunately i read non-fiction at about the same rate. i realize that most people see things in the opposite way, i.e. that capitalization problems are more annoying than poor grammar or syntax, but for me it's the opposite. if my email package had a capitalization checker i'd use it. it doesn't so you have to deal with it unless it's a very, very important communication in which case it does take me at least twice as long to produce the correctly capitalized text as does the non-capitalized text (fixing my "run on" sentences is easier for me, and they are indicative of how i think). PEBCAK... if you look at the content of most of my post you'll see that while the capitalization is poor (mostly absent) the content is generally good. judge me anyway you wish, but realize that this is your problem as much as it is mine. take the useful content of my post or don't, but unless you are trained in teaching the dyslexic don't try to fix that problem of mine. believe me, i have a highly nonstandard wetware package and it too is resistant to boot loading. like every one i have strengths and weaknesses, you've found one of my weaknesses. no, it is not being lazy, it is accepting my limitations and not wasting time fighting them rather than worrying about what i can do "correctly". even worse possibly, and aggravating the above, i have serious chronic pain. the amount of medication i take in a day is truly scary. because of my low back, neck and shoulder problems i can't even use the computer nearly as much as i'd like or i really do hurt myself rather badly. if i offer something useful, be glad, if you find it hard to read you please realize that it's actually harder for me to write the way you'd like me to than it is for you to read the way i do in fact write. it's not an excuse, i have no need to apologize or make excuses, it's an explanation. in any case, thank you for the technical portion of your response. since this chip is even less able to self program than i am to capitalize easily and correctly i'll concentrate on getting the program right which is usually easy for me. thankfully the programming languages i'm familiar with worry about capitalization even less than i do. no flames, please. dysgraphia is a disability like any other. it can be compensated for to an extent, but requires far more effort than it does for the "normal" person. i do usually try to capitalize abbreviations correctly, and that's also easier for me to do correctly than it is for me to correctly capitalize in general. life's a bitch, you deal with it and do what you can or you tread water and drown when you're exhausted. dysgraphia beats the hell out of other disabilities like blindness or stupidity so it's no biggie for me to deal with as long as i don't waste energy fighting it when there are more important things to do. seriously, if my email program ever does have a capitalization, run on sentence, etc. correcting tool i'll use it. but it doesn't so you get to see a little of my perspective. other than the dysgraphia most people agree that i have excellent communications skills. i'd encourage you to take things as i do, be glad for your strengths and other's strengths and don't expect that what is easy for you is easy for someone else. i have many skills, and many deficits like any person, some are more obvious than others, particularly in email. gee, i wish the pic16f688 could self program, and i wish my capitalization skills were better, oh well. at least i program and design electronics well, 2 things most people who can easily capitalize can't easily do. as you've just seen, when i'm tired i do tend to ramble on a bit.... i live in the town of sleep deprivation, be glad you don't and you hopefully never will to the extent that i do. again, thanks for pointing out that this chip can't self program. we all over look things sometimes and this is my first use of a pic and my first serious electronics work and programming in many, many years. despite it being something i haven't done for awhile i'm jumping in with both feet, writing my firmware, writing burning software, designing and building a burner, and getting things set up for this project in general. i made one mistake on the pcb that i've already caught (and i caught it before they shipped but after they were made), hopefully i won't make any more serious programming errors on either the software to program the chip with the burner i've designed or the actual firmware itself. Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote: {Quote hidden}> > Philip Stortz wrote : > > > any one happen to have a pic16f688 bootloader? > > Hi. > > First, > the data sheet says (page 71) : > > - Data EEPROM memory is readable and writable and > - the Flash program memory is readable during normal > - operation (full VDD range). > > So, the Flash don't seem to be writeable under program control, > which, AFAIK, prevents the use of a bootloader. > > Didn't you check that before posting ??? > > Second, > There seems to be some problem with your kayboard. > I only got lowercase characters from you, such as > "i" where there should have been a "I"... > > Best Regards, > Jan-Erik. -------- -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

Philip Stortz wrote : > Sent: den 15 juni 2004 14:30 > To: spam_OUTPICLISTTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: Re: [PIC:] 16f688 bootloader anyone? > > > first: > > you are correct. i've mostly been looking at the programming spec > recently since i've been designing my programmer. i had ass-u-me-ed > that all of the newer parts were self programmable, but i see > that this one is not. Just as many other "new" parts, b.t.w. One have to check each part for that feature. > second: > > yes, there is a defect in my keyboard, it does not automagically > capitalize, spell check (though the email program does...) or grammar > check. i am highly dyslexic and dysgraphic - capitalization > is actually harder for me than grammar and nearly as hard as spelling. OK. I understand. No problem at all. The King of Sweden is dyslexic so you're in good company. :-) Now, of course I didn't know that and sorry of my post sounded a bit harsh. But in 99 cases out of 100 when I see lazy typing, it's just that, lazy typing. You was the 1 out of 100's, so, I'm realy sorry. > this is my first use of a > pic and my > first serious electronics work and programming in many, many years. > despite it being something i haven't done for awhile i'm > jumping in with > both feet, writing my firmware, writing burning software, > designing and > building a burner, and getting things set up for this project in > general. Now, is there any special reason to design your own programming hardware and write your own programming software/firmware ? As a PIC beginner, would it not be much, much easier to just get one of those fine programmers out there ? You might have good reasons to build your own designed programmer, but most people havn't... Best Regards, Jan-Erik. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

no offense taken, particularly as you do understand. some people unfortunately don't understand. we all have problems, and we all deal with them as best we can. we need to be tolerant of each others differences. as for building my own programer, i want to be able to do "margin" checking when i check the code, since i'll be selling these, and i didn't like the circuits i found. as for writing the program, other than dealing with a parallel port in an advanced way for the first time it's a very easy thing for me. i tend to write code the way i breath, very easily and natively. i have reconsidered my decision several times, but i do need margining, the only frustration i've had is the parallel port, particularly since i haven't set up and played with the pc yet, but i trust i will figure it out fairly quickly once i start playing with the hardware (for which i'll be using a solderless bread board and many leds driven with the inverters i'll be using for my programmer, which i may make a general purpose pc interface tool as well after the programing. i'll probably add a few i/0 lines so it can generate I2C and spi signals and read/monitor them as well). also, i'm using a pic16f688, which i gather is fairly new, and i haven't found ready made software to program them, so i probably have to write my own code anyway. given that i want margining, and have to write code any way, i may as well design my own programmer. i have been guided and learned good tips and ideas from looking at other people's designs (it's always best to use what others have already made work as much as possible, generally). i've had some issues with some of the designs, mostly in the way programing high voltage or margining has been done that i felt i could improve on. i'm sure the existing designs work, but i think i can and want to do better in some ways. also, in my case, during programing the programmer has to power the whole circuit, because i'll have it assembled and i'm using a surface mount pic so it's far easier to connect to the pins after it's soldered to a board with test points for the programming connections (well, actually just a piece of solid wire on a board pad for a micro hook grabber). because of the other parts, i have to be able to supply about 100 ma of power to the vcc line during programing, plus what the pic needs (which is actually negligible). all in all, not using someone else's pic programer design as is and writing code will probably cost me 3 or 4 days (given that i work sporadically and not always for many hours in a day because of my health problems), which i think the project can tolerate, and it's something else that will amuse me and stimulate my mind, which i haven't been using enough for some time. i'm really, really enjoying having a project again and doing the thinking involved, whether or not i wind up breaking even or making a little money it will have been worth while. it's difficult for a person like me to find good mental challenges without making my own, and i love learning new things and playing with hardware and software. excellent exercise for "the little gray cells". Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote: {Quote hidden}> > Philip Stortz wrote : > > > Sent: den 15 juni 2004 14:30 > > To: .....PICLISTKILLspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU > > Subject: Re: [PIC:] 16f688 bootloader anyone? > > > > > > first: > > > > you are correct. i've mostly been looking at the programming spec > > recently since i've been designing my programmer. i had ass-u-me-ed > > that all of the newer parts were self programmable, but i see > > that this one is not. > > Just as many other "new" parts, b.t.w. One have to check each part > for that feature. > > > second: > > > > yes, there is a defect in my keyboard, it does not automagically > > capitalize, spell check (though the email program does...) or grammar > > check. i am highly dyslexic and dysgraphic - capitalization > > is actually harder for me than grammar and nearly as hard as spelling. > > OK. I understand. > No problem at all. The King of Sweden is dyslexic so you're in > good company. :-) > > Now, of course I didn't know that and sorry of my post sounded a bit harsh. > But in 99 cases out of 100 when I see lazy typing, it's just that, lazy typing. > You was the 1 out of 100's, so, I'm realy sorry. > > > this is my first use of a > > pic and my > > first serious electronics work and programming in many, many years. > > despite it being something i haven't done for awhile i'm > > jumping in with > > both feet, writing my firmware, writing burning software, > > designing and > > building a burner, and getting things set up for this project in > > general. > > Now, is there any special reason to design your own programming > hardware and write your own programming software/firmware ? > > As a PIC beginner, would it not be much, much easier to just get > one of those fine programmers out there ? > > You might have good reasons to build your own designed > programmer, but most people havn't... > > Best Regards, > Jan-Erik. > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: > [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.