Post by thread:[PIC:] Code editors

Hi All, I'm new to PIC programming but I'm an experienced Windows programmer. I am struggling with the dearth of decent code editors /that are language-aware and target aware/ for the various PIC programming languages (C variants, PICBasic, assembly, etc...) and chips. As I said, I'm used to Windows programming in editors that are language aware and offer a rich set of features like Intellisense, MemberLists, context-sensitive help, target device feature awareness, and so on. I know there are awesome code editors out there - but for the most part they aren't geared toward PIC development. Catering to everyone necessarily entails reducing oneself to the lowest common denominator. Why should PIC programmers be limited by the needs of people editing HTML or C or whatever? Several weeks ago I took it upon myself to write a code editor that is tightly integrated with both my PIC C compiler and my programmer (kitsrus #150). It is aware of the peripherals available on my target chips. I am coding this in a manner that will allow easy extensibility - plugging in a new language, compiler, programmer or device (i.e., target chip) will be as simple as writing an XML file that defines information associated with the plugged-in language, compiler, programmer or device. I realize this is an ambitious endeavor but I've made great progress in the last few weeks. I'm writing this primarily for myself but will certainly share it with members of the list as it becomes more functional. In my opinion it is INSANE to pay $100 for a great compiler but $400 for the /very same/ compiler with a code editor that's marginal at best. In the future I might release it as shareware - who knows. In the meantime, I'm just using this as an opportunity to expand my Windows development skills and have a little fun... My appeal to the group is: can you help me by letting me know the features/functionality a professional (or serious hobbyist) is looking for in a code editor/project manager for PIC programming specifically? What are the existing editors lacking that would make programming PICs easier and more productive? Please keep in mind that I'm writing a code editor - not a compiler or new programming language... To anyone who responds I'll commit to keeping you in the loop: I'll send you periodic updates of the editor forever and ever :-) ..Or you can just write and say I'm smoking crack... Thanks so much for your input! -matt redmond -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Well, I'll grant you that the existing editors for PIC leave a lot to be desired when you compare them to something like Visual Studio .Net (with 'Visual Assist' of course!)... I'm also an experienced Windows developer, and my recent interest into PIC development is causing me some severe withdrawal pains... - I wished I could 'browse to' the declaration / definition of a symbol just by pressing 'F12'. I can't estimate you many precious seconds (!) I waste trying to open up some header file to find out how a struct is defined is some remote header file... - I wished I could open a header file by 'context menu' / 'open file' - I wished the editor would tabify for me, and remove extra spaces. - I wished there was a 'code beautify' feature like .Net's Ctrl-K + Ctrl-D - The lack of docking windows in MPLAB is driving me nuts! I'm constantly repositioning windows that always reappear at their 'default' position, and this is a major drag as I code with a computer hooked up to three 21" monitors! - The lack of bookmarks (Ctrl+F2 / F2) is a major pain in large source files. - I wished the image could be uploaded to the image right after compile and the program to start running (assuming ICSP here). I hate the 12-steps that need to be done after every compile! - There are a few 'keys' missing (such as Ctrl+BackSpace, Ctrl+], etc...) - A 'F4' key to go to the next compile error would be nice... Just my $0.02... Good luck with your project!! Jean-Pierre {Original Message removed}

> My appeal to the group is: can you help me by letting me know the > features/functionality a professional (or serious hobbyist) > is looking for > in a code editor/project manager for PIC programming > specifically? I might be a exception, but I want to use the same editor for Jal, assembler, C, C++, Python, HTML, and even flat text. So waht I want is a general-purpose editor (I like UltraEdit) with maybe some special language-related features (coloring) and shell-out (compile & jump to first error). Maybe try to get the sources of PFE and work from that? Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email spam_OUTlistservTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

{Quote hidden}>-----Original Message----- >From: Wouter van Ooijen [.....wouterKILLspam@spam@VOTI.NL] >Sent: 11 December 2003 07:30 >To: PICLISTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU >Subject: Re: [PIC:] Code editors - need input > > >> My appeal to the group is: can you help me by letting me know the >> features/functionality a professional (or serious hobbyist) >is looking >> for in a code editor/project manager for PIC programming >> specifically? > >I might be a exception, but I want to use the same editor for >Jal, assembler, C, C++, Python, HTML, and even flat text. So >waht I want is a general-purpose editor (I like UltraEdit) >with maybe some special language-related features (coloring) >and shell-out (compile & jump to first error). Maybe try to >get the sources of PFE and work from that? > >Wouter van Ooijen > I also use Ultaedit for all text editing (and sometimes hex editing). I'd say the features I appreciate most are: 1) Robust syntax colouring - MPLAB 6 still gets confused when removing comments in C 2) Find in Files - the editor will search all files within a project, or all open files and display the results in a separate window. Double clicking each line found will take you to the relevant module and line. 3) Replace in Files 4) Function list. Each open file can have a separate window showing all the functions within the file. Double clicking will take you directly to the function. 5) Comprehensive tool integration options. 6) Column mode - you can cut and paste arbitrary rectangular blocks of text. In terms of productivity improvements, Ultraedit is the best $35 I've ever spent. Regards Mike ======================================================================= This e-mail is intended for the person it is addressed to only. The information contained in it may be confidential and/or protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you must not make any use of this information, or copy or show it to any person. Please contact us immediately to tell us that you have received this e-mail, and return the original to us. Any use, forwarding, printing or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. No part of this message can be considered a request for goods or services. ======================================================================= Any questions about Bookham's E-Mail service should be directed to .....postmasterKILLspam.....bookham.com. -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email EraseMElistservspam_OUTTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

I used EditPlus, the best editor for me. Most appriciated features (have to have them): - Syntax coloring - Line numbering - Column selection *VERY SIMPLE* hold down ALT key and select with the mouse - Indenting multiple lines or selected column with the TAB key - Project handling and external executable integration - Error line jumps - Function list (although it is not permanent, you have to hit ALT-F11 to get the list. I would love it if you have the function list on the left side grouped by files in the project) -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listservspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Andre Abelian wrote: > Matt, > > I think one of the feature I like to have is wizard for example. > After click on wizard That brings up another point. All interactions should be possible from the keyboard alone. I can type quite well, and I like keeping my fingers on the keyboard. Too me, mouse manipulations break the "automatic" flow where the fingers just do the right thing without requiring thought, and are a lot slower than a few keystrokes. It would be especially nice if the editor were based on a command interpreter internally and you can bind keys to particular command sequences. That's how the editor I now use works, and I like it. And another thing (you are going to regret having asked 2000 people for their opinions), the PAGE UP and PAGE DOWN mechanism should move *half* a page, not a whole page, or at least make it adjustable. I find it annoying to lose all context when I'm trying to scroll thru a document. ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email KILLspamlistservKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Hello, An editor where I don't have to use the mouse or learn new keystroke sequences is much more important to me than wizards. That is why I use vi (gvim for Windoze users) and ctags. vi has syntax highlighting for just about everything. david On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 22:21:50 -0800 Andre Abelian <RemoveMEengelecTakeThisOuTEARTHLINK.NET> wrote: {Quote hidden}> Matt, > > I think one of the feature I like to have is wizard for example. > After click on wizard > 1. choose pic > 2. what language Hi-tech c, ccs c, asm > 3. what peripherals to activate > 4. what interrupts to activate > 5. so on until reach the end then the code is ready for compiler > > Andre > > > > {Original Message removed}

> That brings up another point. All interactions should be > possible from the > keyboard alone. Remember the ctrl-K-crtl-B ctrl-K-ctrl-K ctrl-K-ctrl-C block copy (and delete, move etc) operations in the good old TurboPascal editors? I have never seen another scheme that setteled in my fingertips like that one! Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email spamBeGonelistservspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

>That brings up another point. All interactions should be possible from the >keyboard alone. I can type quite well, and I like keeping my fingers on the >keyboard. Too me, mouse manipulations break the "automatic" flow where the >fingers just do the right thing without requiring thought, and are a lot >slower than a few keystrokes. > Why try to stick in the previous century ? I like a "code-editor" that doesn't need the keyboard at all. What about - speech - handwriting - Dasher in combination with eye detection = "read your mind" - complete other design tools, like improved state machines these technics are all available at the moment, but there's (almost) no one that implements them. Either the PIC market. is too small, or we want to keep our job ;-) Stef Mientki -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email TakeThisOuTlistservEraseMEspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Matt Redmond <RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu> wrote: > My appeal to the group is: can you help me by letting me know the > features/functionality a professional (or serious hobbyist) is > looking for in a code editor/project manager for PIC programming > specifically? All the features I ever wanted were provided by Codewright (http://www.codewright.com), either straight out of the box or with a very small amount of customization work. Codewright, for instance, does everything (except the "project wizard") that's been requested so far in this thread. -Andy === Andrew Warren -- aiwEraseME.....cypress.com === Principal Design Engineer === Cypress Semiconductor Corporation === === Opinions expressed above do not === necessarily represent those of === Cypress Semiconductor Corporation -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email EraseMElistservmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Andrew Warren wrote: > Matt Redmond <RemoveMEPICLISTEraseMEEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu> wrote: > All the features I ever wanted were provided by Codewright > (http://www.codewright.com), either straight out of the box or > with a very small amount of customization work. Codewright, for > instance, does everything (except the "project wizard") that's > been requested so far in this thread. > > -Andy > > === Andrew Warren -- RemoveMEaiwspam_OUTKILLspamcypress.com > === Principal Design Engineer > === Cypress Semiconductor Corporation > === > === Opinions expressed above do not > === necessarily represent those of > === Cypress Semiconductor Corporation Although I haven't tried it yet, Microchip now supplies a free "Visual Device Initializer" addon for MPLAB 6.40, which will generate C18, C30, or assembly code for the PIC18 and dsPIC to initialize all the peripherals however you want. The link is at the bottom of the MPLAB download page. Daniel Imfeld -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservTakeThisOuTspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

> All the features I ever wanted were provided by Codewright > (http://www.codewright.com), either straight out of the box or > with a very small amount of customization work. Codewright, for > instance, does everything (except the "project wizard") that's > been requested so far in this thread. > > -Andy Well, let's not forget about emacs. Been using it for 10 years and have been productive with it for the past 8 :-) Tom Deutschman Wizbang Designs, Inc. 1629 W 8TH AVE Spokane, WA 99204 Phone: (509) 251-4814 http://www.wizbangdesigns.com -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email EraseMElistservspamspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Matt Redmond wrote: > My appeal to the group is: can you help me by letting me know the > features/functionality a professional (or serious hobbyist) is > looking for in a code editor/project manager for PIC programming > specifically? One of my pet peeves with other editors (including the ones that come with MSVC++ and MPLAB, which is one reason I don't use them) is that you can't set the tab stops for real. They assume you want tab stops at regular intervals, which is really stupid. For example, for PIC source editing I set my tabs (in a real editor) to 10 (opcode), 18 (start of operands), 30 (start of comments), and all columns thereafter (in case operands end after column 30). And of course the editor must substitute spaces, not embed TAB characters in the source code. ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Codewright is a very cool editor, although I think I read somewhere that they are either sold or in the deadpool now. My personal favorite comes from the world of CPM, later released under dos. It was from a little company in Michigan called Compuview. (owned by Ted Green, and originally called GreenLeaf, or something like that.) It had everything and even ran under CPM! Multiple file editing, cut and paste, multiple file windows. and a great bunch of ASM coder goodies. It could, for instance, understand that everything between the first and second tab stop should be all caps. It could do column-oriented cut and pastes. Very cool! The column oriented operations included changing the case of the letters in a highlighted area, which was nice for importing code into a program that was not formatted to your tastes. It was very much a no-mouse pre-windows attempt to get the same functionality that we now have under windows. It it's last incarnation, it even had a pretty functional IDE cobbled up from script files that called various tools. I remember fondly some Jolt-fueled 24 hr coding blitzes that ended up with 800 lines of assembly code rammed through a 2Mhz Z-80 using this editor. That, of course, was 20+ years ago, when I had speed and stamina..... Oops, I've rambled..Maybe I should have posted all this under [OT]: Edward Gisske, P.E. Gisske Engineering 608-523-1900 gisskeSTOPspamspam_OUToffex.com {Original Message removed}

I would like it to look like a Borland/Delphi Editor and be user configurable. It would be nice to have auto complete from a user modifiable file as well. I would like to be able to to EVERYTHING from the keyboard. If the program consists mainly of maps & tables, it should be adaptable to each new application without having to change the way a programmer thinks when he changes vendors. I still keep a copy of Borland Turbo 3.0 on the system just as a quick editor. John Ferrell 6241 Phillippi Rd Julian NC 27283 Phone: (336)685-9606 spamBeGonejohnferrellSTOPspamEraseMEearthlink.net home.sprintmail.com/~johnferrell/dixiecompetitionproducts/ NSRCA 479 AMA 4190 W8CCW "My Competition is Not My Enemy" {Original Message removed}

Tom Deutschman <KILLspamPICLISTspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu> wrote: > Well, let's not forget about emacs. Been using it for 10 years and > have been productive with it for the past 8 :-) Codewright can do emacs emulation (or vi, or brief, or Wordstar, or anything). Olin Lathrop <EraseMEPICLISTEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu> wrote: > One of my pet peeves with other editors .... is that you can't > set the tab stops for real. They assume you want tab stops at > regular intervals, which is really stupid. For example, for PIC > source editing I set my tabs (in a real editor) to 10 (opcode), 18 > (start of operands), 30 (start of comments), and all columns > thereafter (in case operands end after column 30). Codewright does what you want. > And of course the editor must substitute spaces, not embed TAB > characters in the source code. Codewright can be configured to use tabs or spaces, and you can replace either with the other at any time. John Ferrell <@spam@PICLIST@spam@spam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu> wrote: > It would be nice to have auto complete from a user modifiable file > as well. I would like to be able to to EVERYTHING from the > keyboard. Again, Codewright. Edward Gisske <spamBeGonePICLISTKILLspammitvma.mit.edu> wrote: > Codewright is a very cool editor, although I think I read > somewhere that they are either sold or in the deadpool now. Borland now owns Codewright. http://www.codewright.com -Andy === Andrew Warren -- .....aiwspam_OUTcypress.com === Principal Design Engineer === Cypress Semiconductor Corporation === === Opinions expressed above do not === necessarily represent those of === Cypress Semiconductor Corporation -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email TakeThisOuTlistserv.....TakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

You know, the PROBLEM is that I'm really hesitant to use, and get used to, an editor that is optimized for a particular processor, and runs on a limited set of operating systems. No matter HOW many bells and whistles it might have for a PIC under windows, I still need (want) to program avrs, mips, ppcs, windows itself, unix, solaris, macs, 8051s, ACE, 4 bit toshibas, cypress, etc, etc, all while running on windows, macos, linux, solaris, etc, etc. An editor would have to offer really tremendous productivity gains for a particular combination to justify the loss in productivity that would result from having to switch editors too often. That's why I settled on emacs 20+ years ago (and I haven't been sorry.) vi seems to have gained similar cross-platform/target compatibility (in a rather different style) more recently, so that's another possibility. But I'm just not interested in anything that's not customizable, extensible, and runs on at least three major operating systems. BillW -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

> But I'm just not interested in > anything that's not customizable, extensible, and runs on at > least three major operating systems. Three? I know only two, and one is not a real operating system, and the other is not major yet ;) Roughly the same reasoning led me to programming in Python. Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email spamBeGonelistserv@spam@spam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

www.textpad.com Inexpensive & powerful why reinvent the wheel? -----Original Message----- From: pic microcontroller discussion list [TakeThisOuTPICLISTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Michael Rigby-Jones Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 2:12 AM To: PICLISTEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: [PIC:] Code editors - need input {Quote hidden}>-----Original Message----- >From: Wouter van Ooijen [RemoveMEwouterEraseMEspam_OUTVOTI.NL] >Sent: 11 December 2003 07:30 >To: @spam@PICLISTRemoveMEEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU >Subject: Re: [PIC:] Code editors - need input > > >> My appeal to the group is: can you help me by letting me know the >> features/functionality a professional (or serious hobbyist) >is looking >> for in a code editor/project manager for PIC programming >> specifically? > >I might be a exception, but I want to use the same editor for >Jal, assembler, C, C++, Python, HTML, and even flat text. So >waht I want is a general-purpose editor (I like UltraEdit) >with maybe some special language-related features (coloring) >and shell-out (compile & jump to first error). Maybe try to >get the sources of PFE and work from that? > >Wouter van Ooijen > I also use Ultaedit for all text editing (and sometimes hex editing). I'd say the features I appreciate most are: 1) Robust syntax colouring - MPLAB 6 still gets confused when removing comments in C 2) Find in Files - the editor will search all files within a project, or all open files and display the results in a separate window. Double clicking each line found will take you to the relevant module and line. 3) Replace in Files 4) Function list. Each open file can have a separate window showing all the functions within the file. Double clicking will take you directly to the function. 5) Comprehensive tool integration options. 6) Column mode - you can cut and paste arbitrary rectangular blocks of text. In terms of productivity improvements, Ultraedit is the best $35 I've ever spent. Regards Mike ======================================================================= This e-mail is intended for the person it is addressed to only. The information contained in it may be confidential and/or protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you must not make any use of this information, or copy or show it to any person. Please contact us immediately to tell us that you have received this e-mail, and return the original to us. Any use, forwarding, printing or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. No part of this message can be considered a request for goods or services. ======================================================================= Any questions about Bookham's E-Mail service should be directed to EraseMEpostmaster@spam@bookham.com. -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email @spam@listservspam_OUT.....mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email spamBeGonelistservEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Thanks, everyone for the continued input - I really appreciate it. As far as reinventing the wheel goes - and this applies to using /any/ of the existing editors: As I said in my original post, I'm doing this as a way to exercise my development skills. Considering the feature set I envision, this is a very big project that touches many areas I'd like to gain more experience in. In addition (and just as importantly), I've found that a project like this is an ideal way to become more familiar with (a) the programming languages involved (PIC-C and asm to start) and (2) the target chips involved. So those are my real goals. I'm distilling everyone's suggestions into a single list. Many of the suggested features I've already planned or included - others I'll try to tackle as soon as I can. -matt redmond On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:13:10 -0600 ed_b_pes <ed_b_pesspamBeGoneswbell.net> wrote: >http://www.textpad.com > >Inexpensive & powerful why reinvent the wheel? > -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistserv@spam@spamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

One wish list. Need regular expression in the text editor for *a lot* of reasons. Unix regex should do the trick. John Matt Redmond wrote: {Quote hidden}> Thanks, everyone for the continued input - I really > appreciate it. > > As far as reinventing the wheel goes - and this applies to > using /any/ of the existing editors: As I said in my > original post, I'm doing this as a way to exercise my > development skills. Considering the feature set I > envision, this is a very big project that touches many > areas I'd like to gain more experience in. In addition > (and just as importantly), I've found that a project like > this is an ideal way to become more familiar with (a) the > programming languages involved (PIC-C and asm to start) > and (2) the target chips involved. So those are my real > goals. > > I'm distilling everyone's suggestions into a single list. > Many of the suggested features I've already planned or > included - others I'll try to tackle as soon as I can. > > > -matt redmond > > > On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:13:10 -0600 > ed_b_pes <.....ed_b_pes@spam@EraseMEswbell.net> wrote: > >> http://www.textpad.com >> >> Inexpensive & powerful why reinvent the wheel? >> > > -- > http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! > email .....listservRemoveMEmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body > -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email .....listservSTOPspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

On Thursday, Dec 11, 2003, at 13:32 US/Pacific, Wouter van Ooijen wrote: >> But I'm just not interested in >> anything that's not customizable, extensible, and runs on at >> least three major operating systems. > > Three? I know only two, and one is not a real operating system, and the > other is not major yet ;) Well, when you start talking about editors, you get into display and filesystem specifics and you might have to start dividing up "unix" into the individual styles. So I regularly use MacOSX, Windows, and Solaris, which I think I have to count as there different operating systems, even though macosx and solaris are both unix variants. It's an interesting question whether an x-windows based editor would be sufficient for MacOSX. That means that roughly, the three OSes are windows, unix, and macos, but it's more like three window systems in reality. > Roughly the same reasoning led me to programming in Python. I might have to look into python. Just out of curiosity, why python rather than a posix subset of C like cygwin? (which seems to be pretty portable...) BillW -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listservEraseME@spam@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

> I might have to look into python. Just out of curiosity, why > python rather than a posix subset of C like cygwin? (which seems > to be pretty portable...) I can't speak for Wouter, but the advantage of a scripting language like Python is ease and speed of development. Also, with a scripting language, you can distribute the script file and anyone that has an interpreter can run it. With a compiled language like C you'd have to compile it for every target OS / machine. Python also has platform specific bindings and inheritance. Eg. On the BeOS you can inherit from BWindow and friends to do GUI stuff using Python. Not sure if there is a platform abstraction layer available as well so that one could develop a GUI for any OS (which supports it) without code changes. -- Michael Davidson Fortune: When a fellow says, "It ain't the money but the principle of the thing," it's the money. -- Kim Hubbard -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu

And how I remember! Do you remember EDT, the editor on PDP-11 which has been cloned also for PC? The GOLD key on the numeric keypad is a phantastic idea, isn't it? Regards, Imre On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, Wouter van Ooijen wrote: {Quote hidden}> > That brings up another point. All interactions should be > > possible from the > > keyboard alone. > > Remember the ctrl-K-crtl-B ctrl-K-ctrl-K ctrl-K-ctrl-C block copy (and > delete, move etc) operations in the good old TurboPascal editors? I have > never seen another scheme that setteled in my fingertips like that one! > > Wouter van Ooijen > > -- ------------------------------------------- > Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl > consultancy, development, PICmicro products > > -- > http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! > email spamBeGonelistservKILLspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList piclist-unsubscribe-requestspam_OUT@spam@mitvma.mit.edu

Hi, I still keep it, too - not only as an editor, but also a quick prototyping engine if I want to make some test about algorithms &c. Pretty more efficient than BASIC! Imre On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, John Ferrell wrote: {Quote hidden}> I would like it to look like a Borland/Delphi Editor and be user > configurable. It would be nice to have auto complete from a user modifiable > file as well. I would like to be able to to EVERYTHING from the keyboard. > If the program consists mainly of maps & tables, it should be adaptable to > each new application without having to change the way a programmer thinks > when he changes vendors. > > I still keep a copy of Borland Turbo 3.0 on the system just as a quick > editor. > > John Ferrell > 6241 Phillippi Rd > Julian NC 27283 > Phone: (336)685-9606 > spamBeGonejohnferrell@spam@earthlink.net > home.sprintmail.com/~johnferrell/dixiecompetitionproducts/ > NSRCA 479 AMA 4190 W8CCW > "My Competition is Not My Enemy" > > {Original Message removed}

> I might have to look into python. Just out of curiosity, why > python rather than a posix subset of C like cygwin? (which seems > to be pretty portable...) Not when you want to do windows/graphics programming in a portable way. And note that it is an interpreted language, so I dstrinbute a source file, and it can run on platforms I have never heard of. No need to have all the possible targets around, no need even for a set of cross compilers. And it is a big bonus that high-level graphics libraries are available (I like tk, but others don't, and they can simply choose another lib. And those libs are portable too). And (after some getting used to) I surely like the Python language. BTW I still use C/C++ when speed matters. Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList spamBeGonepiclist-unsubscribe-requestspam_OUTRemoveMEmitvma.mit.edu

Hi, a good bargain between portability/etc and the Speed of C is the language Euphoria. It is interpreted, but for distro registered user can obfuscate it. Speed is approx. a quarter of C so I use it e. g. for FFT. There is a huge amount of 3rd party libs so I think it is worthwhile to look at their website http://www.rapideuphoria.com. I am not affiliated in any way, you know. Imre +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity | | to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or | | privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or | | other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this | | information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient | | is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the | | sender and delete the material from any computer. | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Wouter van Ooijen wrote: {Quote hidden}> > I might have to look into python. Just out of curiosity, why > > python rather than a posix subset of C like cygwin? (which seems > > to be pretty portable...) > > Not when you want to do windows/graphics programming in a portable way. > And note that it is an interpreted language, so I dstrinbute a source > file, and it can run on platforms I have never heard of. No need to have > all the possible targets around, no need even for a set of cross > compilers. And it is a big bonus that high-level graphics libraries are > available (I like tk, but others don't, and they can simply choose > another lib. And those libs are portable too). And (after some getting > used to) I surely like the Python language. BTW I still use C/C++ when > speed matters. > > Wouter van Ooijen > > -- ------------------------------------------- > Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl > consultancy, development, PICmicro products > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList > .....piclist-unsubscribe-requestRemoveMEmitvma.mit.edu > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList piclist-unsubscribe-request@spam@mitvma.mit.edu

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:04:55 +0100 Wouter van Ooijen <EraseMEwouterRemoveMESTOPspamVOTI.NL> wrote: > > That brings up another point. All interactions should be > > possible from the > > keyboard alone. > > Remember the ctrl-K-crtl-B ctrl-K-ctrl-K ctrl-K-ctrl-C block copy (and > delete, move etc) operations in the good old TurboPascal editors? I have > never seen another scheme that setteled in my fingertips like that one! That was inherited from WordStar. And possibly from the time it was called WordMaster. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspamTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu