Post by thread:[PIC:]FPP cannot erase the A part pic16F628A

I can erase and program both pic16F628 and the 628A part with Picallw and my Tait like programmer. Although the 628A part is not explicitly listed in the device list, David Tait programmer software FPP can program it as long as it is either brand new or already erased (with Picallw in my case). When I press FPP's erase key, I can see three impulses of roughly 8ms separated by 8ms. But that does not erase neither the program not the fuses area. Does anyone has an idea why FPP cannot erase and reprogram the 628A as it does so well with the 628 part ? Thank you, Gaston Gagnon -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

{Quote hidden}> From: Gaston Gagnon[SMTP:spam_OUTgaston.gagnonTakeThisOuTVIDEOTRON.CA] > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 5:32 PM > To: .....PICLISTKILLspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: [PIC:]FPP cannot erase the A part pic16F628A > I can erase and program both pic16F628 and the 628A part with Picallw > and my Tait like programmer. > Although the 628A part is not explicitly listed in the device list, > David Tait programmer software FPP can program it as long as it is > either brand new or already erased (with Picallw in my case). > When I press FPP's erase key, I can see three impulses of roughly 8ms > separated by 8ms. But that does not erase neither the program not the > fuses area. > Does anyone has an idea why FPP cannot erase and reprogram the 628A as > it does so well with the 628 part ? > Thank you, > Gaston Gagnon As a general rule, you should not assume that "A" suffix parts program or erase in the same manner as the non-A parts. Look at the programming specification for both parts, and compare them. You may see quite a difference between them. For example, the Microchip ICD (the original one, version 1) will program the 16F877, but not the 16F877A. A firmware update to include the 16F877A is available from Microchip, but reading the programming specs for both chips shows completely different algorithms. John Power -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

John N. Power wrote: {Quote hidden}>>From: Gaston Gagnon[SMTP:gaston.gagnonKILLspamVIDEOTRON.CA] >>I can erase and program both pic16F628 and the 628A part with Picallw >>and my Tait like programmer. >> >>Although the 628A part is not explicitly listed in the device list, >>David Tait programmer software FPP can program it as long as it is >>either brand new or already erased (with Picallw in my case). >> >>When I press FPP's erase key, I can see three impulses of roughly 8ms >>separated by 8ms. But that does not erase neither the program not the >>fuses area. >> >>Does anyone has an idea why FPP cannot erase and reprogram the 628A as >>it does so well with the 628 part ? > As a general rule, you should not assume that "A" suffix parts program or > erase in the same manner as the non-A parts. Look at the programming > specification for both parts, and compare them. You may see quite a > difference between them. > For example, the Microchip ICD (the original one, version 1) will program > the 16F877, but not the 16F877A. A firmware update to include the > 16F877A is available from Microchip, but reading the programming specs > for both chips shows completely different algorithms. Hi John, Thank you for your response. I understand that 877A part has a different algorithm than the 877. This does not seem to apply to the 628/628A parts since I can program both type with FPP programmer which only offer 628. The problem is the erasing. FPP does not erase the 628A correctly. A logic analyser would be handy here to see what is really happening. I was hoping somebody had found some settings or other tweak to program both part with FPP :( I have succeed to program and reprogram both pics with Winpic even if it does not offer 628A part. The problem though is that it takes 23sec. The same can be program in 7sec with FPP. Does any one know of other free programmer out there that can program the A parts ? I have look but not tried at IcProg because all Lpt ports are grayed out except for Lpt1. I am using LPT3 :( Gaston Gagnon > > John Power -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

> I understand that 877A part has a different algorithm than > the 877. This > does not seem to apply to the 628/628A parts since I can program both > type with FPP programmer which only offer 628. > The problem is the erasing. FPP does not erase the 628A correctly. So what about the logical conclusion: the 628A does not use the same erase algorithm as the 628? Of course instead of guessing you could read the programming specifications :) But beware that the erase sequence for all c84-programming-compatible chips in the programming specs is wrong. The correct seqence can be found in the piclist archives (this lore is passed on by word of mouth - or rather email. > Does any one know of other free programmer out there that can program > the A parts ? I sell the http://www.voti.nl/wisp628 as kit or build, but all information for DIY is available. Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Gaston Gagnon wrote : > I can erase and program both pic16F628 and the 628A part with Picallw > and my Tait like programmer. > > Although the 628A part is not explicitly listed in the device list, > David Tait programmer software FPP can program it as long as it is > either brand new or already erased (with Picallw in my case). > > When I press FPP's erase key, I can see three impulses of roughly 8ms > separated by 8ms. But that does not erase neither the program not the > fuses area. > > Does anyone has an idea why FPP cannot erase and reprogram the 628A as > it does so well with the 628 part ? I don't know anything about the programmer hardware and software you are using, but I think that the 628 and the 628A are quite different in these aspects. You'd better have *specific* support for the 628A... Jan-Erik. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Jan-Erik Söderholm XA (TN/PAC) wrote: {Quote hidden}> Gaston Gagnon wrote : > > >>I can erase and program both pic16F628 and the 628A part with Picallw >>and my Tait like programmer. >> >>Although the 628A part is not explicitly listed in the device list, >>David Tait programmer software FPP can program it as long as it is >>either brand new or already erased (with Picallw in my case). >> >>When I press FPP's erase key, I can see three impulses of roughly 8ms >>separated by 8ms. But that does not erase neither the program not the >>fuses area. >> >>Does anyone has an idea why FPP cannot erase and reprogram the 628A as >>it does so well with the 628 part ? > > > > I don't know anything about the programmer > hardware and software you are using, but I > think that the 628 and the 628A are quite > different in these aspects. You'd better have > *specific* support for the 628A... > Thank you Jan-Erik, What do you mean by *specific" support? If you read my last message which, by the way, the title became "[PIC:]FPP can erase the A part pic16F628A", you will see that their differences do not lead to scrapping your programming equipment. To the contrary. It is just a matter of knowing your programming software a bit better. David Tait's FPP program is very simple, intuitive and fast but unfortunately very little documented. This whole thing may not apply to other A parts though. Gaston Gagnon -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Jan-Erik Soderholm XA (TN/PAC) wrote: > Gaston Gagnon wrote : > > >>Thank you Jan-Erik, >>What do you mean by *specific" support? > > > That whoever wrote the software With due respect, "Whoever" is David Tait!!!! > *specificly* says that > "PIC16F628A is supported". If he/she does not say that, > well, then it isn't supported, I guess... Well you guessed wrong. If the author of the software does not say *specificly* it supports the pic16F628A IT SAYS JUST THAT. At last I have found that BOTH, 628 AND 628A CAN BE PROGRAM WITH FPP. So your scrapping advice for my development environment is premature. Please do not stop after the first word, "read the entire message you are answering to " before you hit the send button. Gaston Gagnon -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listservspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

> At last I have found that BOTH, 628 AND 628A CAN BE PROGRAM WITH FPP. So it happens that it works (parially?), not by design but by accident. Then what are you complaining about? Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email @spam@listservKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Gaston Gagnon wrote: > Jan-Erik Soderholm XA (TN/PAC) wrote: >> That whoever wrote the software > > With due respect, "Whoever" is David Tait!!!! > >> *specificly* says that >> "PIC16F628A is supported". If he/she does not say that, >> well, then it isn't supported, I guess... > > Well you guessed wrong. > If the author of the software does not say *specificly* it supports > the pic16F628A IT SAYS JUST THAT. > > At last I have found that BOTH, 628 AND 628A CAN BE PROGRAM WITH FPP. > So your scrapping advice for my development environment is premature. > > Please do not stop after the first word, "read the entire message you > are answering to " before you hit the send button. Whoa, down boy. I think Jan-Erik had a valid point given the information you had presented at the time. In any case, you seem to have forgotten that you asked him for a favor. ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email KILLspamlistservKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

> > Please do not stop after the first word, "read the entire message you > > are answering to " before you hit the send button. > > Whoa, down boy. I think Jan-Erik had a valid point given the information > you had presented at the time. In any case, you seem to have > forgotten that > you asked him for a favor. > You took the words out of my mouth. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.543 / Virus Database: 337 - Release Date: 11/21/2003 -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Olin Lathrop wrote: {Quote hidden}> Gaston Gagnon wrote: > >>Jan-Erik Soderholm XA (TN/PAC) wrote: >> >>>That whoever wrote the software >> >>With due respect, "Whoever" is David Tait!!!! >> >> >>>*specificly* says that >>>"PIC16F628A is supported". If he/she does not say that, >>>well, then it isn't supported, I guess... >> >>Well you guessed wrong. >>If the author of the software does not say *specificly* it supports >>the pic16F628A IT SAYS JUST THAT. >> >>At last I have found that BOTH, 628 AND 628A CAN BE PROGRAM WITH FPP. >>So your scrapping advice for my development environment is premature. >> >>Please do not stop after the first word, "read the entire message you >>are answering to " before you hit the send button. > > > Whoa, down boy. I think Jan-Erik had a valid point given the information > you had presented at the time. In any case, you seem to have forgotten that > you asked him for a favor. For your information Olin, here is the complete message Jan-Erik was answering to: ------------------------------------------------------------- >Jan-Erik Söderholm XA (TN/PAC) wrote: <snip> > I don't know anything about the programmer > hardware and software you are using, but I > think that the 628 and the 628A are quite > different in these aspects. You'd better have > *specific* support for the 628A... Thank you Jan-Erik, What do you mean by *specific" support? If you read my last message which, by the way, the title became "[PIC:]FPP can erase the A part pic16F628A", you will see that their differences do not lead to scrapping your programming equipment. To the contrary. It is just a matter of knowing your programming software a bit better. David Tait's FPP program is very simple, intuitive and fast but unfortunately very little documented. This whole thing may not apply to other A parts though. Gaston Gagnon ------------------------------------------------------------- -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email spamBeGonelistservspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Gaston Gagnon wrote : > Jan-Erik Soderholm XA (TN/PAC) wrote: > > Gaston Gagnon wrote : > > > Thank you Jan-Erik, > > > What do you mean by *specific" support? > > > > > > That whoever wrote the software > > With due respect, "Whoever" is David Tait!!!! Doesn't matter, does it ? Or is "whoever" a belittlement in any way ? If so, I'm sorry, of course. > > > *specificly* says that > > "PIC16F628A is supported". If he/she does not say that, > > well, then it isn't supported, I guess... > > Well you guessed wrong. I wasn't guessing. > If the author of the software does not say *specificly* it > supports the pic16F628A IT SAYS JUST THAT. Of course, but it's kind of an importent piece of information, isn't it ? > > At last I have found that BOTH, 628 AND 628A CAN BE PROGRAM WITH FPP. Lucky you ! > So your scrapping advice for my development environment is premature. I do not agree. > > Please do not stop after the first word, "read the entire message you > are answering to " before you hit the send button. And how on earth do you know I did *not* read the entire message ??? And then decided on what I thought was worth to answer. But, OK, lets take a second look at the entire message... > Thank you Jan-Erik, > What do you mean by *specific" support? Already answered. > If you read my last message which, by the way, the title became > "[PIC:]FPP can erase the A part pic16F628A", you will see that their > differences do not lead to scrapping your programming equipment. To the > contrary. I do not agree. > It is just a matter of knowing your programming software a bit > better. Why should you ? It should work "as advertised", ***IMHO*** !! > David Tait's FPP program is very simple, intuitive and fast but > unfortunately very little documented. Well, you have been shouting "don't say RTFM to me!" to others here, so I don't see that any documentation had helped here... > > This whole thing may not apply to other A parts though. > As said before, the far most easiest solution , is to use tools with specific support for whatever PIC's you are using... Now, of course I'm glad that you got you found a solution, even if it doesn't look as a "solution" *I* whould rely on. Jan-Erik. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList TakeThisOuTpiclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu