Post by thread:[PIC]: The "PIC18C Reference Manual" ?

Hi. Last year I asked about the "Mid-range Ref Manual", and the common opinion was that you'd better stick to the specific "Data Sheet" for each model. OK. Now I'v found something called "PIC18C Reference Manual" on the Microchip web. Is the general opinion about *this* document the same as for the midrange document ? That is, not worth to download. Jan-Erik Svderholm S:t Anna Data -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email spam_OUTlistservTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Just like the Mid-Range Reference Manual, it tells you a lot about the series - a lot more, in some cases, than the data sheet. However, the data sheet is necessary for the specific details of a particular chip. I use both. Larry At 07:02 PM 1/20/2003 +0100, you wrote: {Quote hidden}>Hi. >Last year I asked about the "Mid-range Ref Manual", and the >common opinion was that you'd better stick to the specific >"Data Sheet" for each model. OK. > >Now I'v found something called "PIC18C Reference Manual" on >the Microchip web. Is the general opinion about >*this* document the same as for the midrange document ? >That is, not worth to download. > > >Jan-Erik Svderholm >S:t Anna Data > >-- >http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! >email .....listservKILLspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body Larry Bradley Orleans (Ottawa), Ontario, CANADA -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listservKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

At 07:02 PM 1/20/03 +0100, Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote: >Hi. >Last year I asked about the "Mid-range Ref Manual", and the >common opinion was that you'd better stick to the specific >"Data Sheet" for each model. OK. I would disagree with this - the individual data sheets often make reference to the Mid-range Reference Manual. The individual data sheet tells you most of what you need to know and is the final authority if the information in the Mid Ref Manual is different. But that extra manual contains a wealth of information especially useful to beginners. >Now I'v found something called "PIC18C Reference Manual" on >the Microchip web. Is the general opinion about >*this* document the same as for the midrange document ? I haven't looked at it yet. But when I start to play with the 18C or 18F series, I *will* download the most current version of it and read it. dwayne -- Dwayne Reid <.....dwaynerKILLspam.....planet.eon.net> Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA (780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax Celebrating 18 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2002) .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .- `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address. This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email EraseMElistservspam_OUTTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

At 03:06 PM 1/20/03 -0500, you wrote: >Just like the Mid-Range Reference Manual, it tells you a lot about the >series - a lot more, in some cases, than the data sheet. However, the data >sheet is necessary for the specific details of a particular chip. I use both. Me too. I cringe when people say that the midrange reference manual or the electrical specifications in the datasheet are not useful. 8-( Best regards, Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speffspam_OUTinterlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email @spam@listservKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

> Me too. I cringe when people say that the midrange reference manual or the > electrical specifications in the datasheet are not useful. 8-( > > Best regards, OK, sorry, I was a bit unclear in my post... I think the main discussion last time, was that the midrange ref manual was a bit old (dated dec-1997), there must be a number of features in the later PIC models that are missing (?). Anyway, I got the message, I'v started a download of the 18-series ref manual (17 mb !). B.t.w, it's called "...18C-...", I'm mainly using the 18F models. I hope that doesn't matter... Thanks! Jan-Erik. -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email KILLspamlistservKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

> Me too. I cringe when people say that the midrange reference manual or the > electrical specifications in the datasheet are not useful. 8-( What exactly have you found useful in the midrange reference manual that wasn't in a particular data sheet? ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

> What exactly have you found useful in the midrange reference > manual that wasn't in a particular data sheet? How do you define "useful" ? Does it matter - for the sake of a bit of download time all documents are available As just one example, and there are many others - the MRM has 18 pages on oscillators, which includes inforrmation not in the F628 manual's 3 pages And a recent query about power-down uA showed that the chip manual was incorrect and the MRM had the good oil At nearly 700 pages I don't print out the MRM, but it's easy enough to browse as a pdf and it's a good "one stop shop" for all kinds of information The on-going disparaging of the MRM is curious from someone who rightly urges people to seek out information. Turning the question around - why "exactly" is there this dislike of the MRM ? -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email spamBeGonelistservspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

At 05:00 PM 1/20/03 -0500, Olin Lathrop wrote: > > Me too. I cringe when people say that the midrange reference manual or >the > > electrical specifications in the datasheet are not useful. 8-( > >What exactly have you found useful in the midrange reference manual that >wasn't in a particular data sheet? I enclose a copy of my reply when when the same topic came up in October last year: {Quote hidden}>At 08:24 AM 10/27/02 -0500, Olin Lathrop wrote: > >>Personally I don't bother with the midrange reference manual. Everything >>you need is in the individual data sheets which are much more reliable >>than a "one size fits all" description. > >Except when the individual data sheet tells you to refer to the mid-range >manual. > >Excerpted from section 5.4.1 of the 12f675 data sheet (DS41190A-page 31) > >"Reading the 16-bit value requires some care. Examples 12-2 and 12-3 in >the PICmicro™ Mid-Range MCU >Family Reference Manual (DS33023) show how to read and write Timer1 when >it is running in Asynchronous mode." > >The original poster's question was valid: if current data sheets (the >12f675 is a brand new part) tell you to refer to a document, should that >document not be kept up to date? > >dwayne -- Dwayne Reid <TakeThisOuTdwaynerEraseMEspam_OUTplanet.eon.net> Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA (780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax Celebrating 18 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2002) .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .- `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address. This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

At 05:00 PM 1/20/03 -0500, you wrote: > > Me too. I cringe when people say that the midrange reference manual or >the > > electrical specifications in the datasheet are not useful. 8-( > >What exactly have you found useful in the midrange reference manual that >wasn't in a particular data sheet? The instruction set summaries in the data sheet details on Q cycle activity, and I recall some of the information on the PWM being useful, but can't remember it any more because it's all "obvious" now. ;-) Best regards, Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speffEraseME.....interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email EraseMElistservmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

> > What exactly have you found useful in the midrange reference > > manual that wasn't in a particular data sheet? > > How do you define "useful" ? Does it matter Useful means you found some additional information about a processor in it that wasn't in the processor data sheet. Of course it matters. If there is nothing useful in it for any particular processor that can't be had from the data sheet then the MRM can be safely ignored. > As just one example, and there are many others - the MRM has > 18 pages on oscillators, which includes inforrmation not in the > F628 manual's 3 pages Is anything in the extra 15 pages relevant to the 16F628? {Quote hidden}> And a recent query about power-down uA showed that the > chip manual was incorrect and the MRM had the good oil > > At nearly 700 pages I don't print out the MRM, but it's easy enough > to browse as a pdf and it's a good "one stop shop" for all kinds of > information > > The on-going disparaging of the MRM is curious from someone > who rightly urges people to seek out information. Turning the > question around - why "exactly" is there this dislike of the MRM ? I'm not disparaging it, just asking if anyone has found a unique tidbit of information in it. I looked at it a few years ago when first learning PICs, then discovered the subset for a particular processor appeared to be in the specific data sheet. A few times I had problems and looked to the MRM for more detail, but always came away empty handed. I eventually reached the conclusion that the MRM wasn't worth reading, and have been doing fine without it for several years. The last time I looked at it was about a year ago. I was seeing strange IIC symptoms and was hoping there was more info on the MSSP there. There wasn't, which reinforced my impression of the MRM. The MRM might be useful to someone who is new to PICs, but once you get going it appears everything you need is in the data sheet for the particular processor you are working with. Under no circumstances is the MRM a substitute for any data sheet, so you have read the data sheet anyway. ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservEraseMEEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

> > As just one example, and there are many others - the MRM has > > 18 pages on oscillators, which includes inforrmation not in the > > F628 manual's 3 pages > > Is anything in the extra 15 pages relevant to the 16F628? Yes, inasmuch as the F628 has an oscillator and the MRM has technical inforrmation about PIC oscillators > The MRM might be useful to someone who is new to PICs, but > once you get going it appears everything you need is in the data > sheet for the particular processor you are working with. Under > no circumstances is the MRM a substitute for any data sheet, > so you have read the data sheet anyway. Quite true, it's just another document that can be referred to from time to time, and does have information not present in specific product datasheets We'll have to agree to disagree. You have your opinion, and that's cool. I hear what you're saying - if you know your trade then there's no need for a manual, it's all in your head. However, for many people it probably doesn't work out that way and the MRM can be useful -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservspam_OUTKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

-----Original Message----- Hi. Last year I asked about the "Mid-range Ref Manual", and the common opinion was that you'd better stick to the specific "Data Sheet" for each model. OK. Now I'v found something called "PIC18C Reference Manual" on the Microchip web. Is the general opinion about *this* document the same as for the midrange document ? That is, not worth to download. ;***************************************************************** ; Reference manual ;***************************************************************** Reference manual contains more information about midrange pics So all microchips smart engineers put together their ideas to help designers. I would download it no matter what. I just downloaded pic18c Ref manual and it was 16 mb in PDF format and I used winrar to Compress it became 11 MB. Any time I open pdf files online after it Opened lots of pages are still blank when I move to next page then It will download more I still like zip or rar idea download it first Then it all yours. Andre Abelian ;****************************************************************** Jan-Erik Svderholm S:t Anna Data -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservTakeThisOuTspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList EraseMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu>