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'[PIC] Modulation Over Telephone Line for Microcont'
2009\04\26@222401 by solarwind

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Hey all!

For my next (simple) project, I'm trying to build a network of PICs
that will monitor temperature at various places around the house.

The problem: how do I create a network?

One possible solution is to network over wireless, but this is very
expensive when I have 5 or 6 units to interconnect. Another Idea is
through the telephone line. How would I modulate signals over the
telephone line? The aim of the circuit design is that it should be
simple.

This is the only idea that I can think of that has the potential to be
inexpensive to make. If you guys have any other ideas, I would also
appreciate it.

-- [ solarwind ] -- http://solar-blogg.blogspot.com/

2009\04\26@224930 by Forrest W Christian

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face
DS1822.

solarwind wrote:
> Hey all!
>
> For my next (simple) project, I'm trying to build a network of PICs
> that will monitor temperature at various places around the house.
>
> The problem: how do I create a network?
>
> One possible solution is to network over wireless, but this is very
> expensive when I have 5 or 6 units to interconnect. Another Idea is
> through the telephone line. How would I modulate signals over the
> telephone line? The aim of the circuit design is that it should be
> simple.
>
> This is the only idea that I can think of that has the potential to be
> inexpensive to make. If you guys have any other ideas, I would also
> appreciate it.
>
> -- [ solarwind ] -- http://solar-blogg.blogspot.com/
>  

2009\04\26@230028 by Bob Blick

face
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Are there four wires run throughout the house? Because only two wires
are used for telephone, you can use the extra pair. Forrest mentioned
the one-wire network, that's a good start, and you can emulate it with
any PIC.

Cheers,

Bob


solarwind wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2009\04\26@230600 by Isaac Marino Bavaresco

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solarwind escreveu:
> Hey all!
>
> For my next (simple) project, I'm trying to build a network of PICs
> that will monitor temperature at various places around the house.
>
> The problem: how do I create a network?
>
> One possible solution is to network over wireless, but this is very
> expensive when I have 5 or 6 units to interconnect. Another Idea is
> through the telephone line. How would I modulate signals over the
> telephone line? The aim of the circuit design is that it should be
> simple.
>
> This is the only idea that I can think of that has the potential to be
> inexpensive to make. If you guys have any other ideas, I would also
> appreciate it.
>  
How about RS-485 ?
Or even half-duplex RS-232 with a diode in each TX output and a
pull-down to V- ?
Or the very inexpensive 433MHz RF modules ?

Regards,
Isaac

__________________________________________________
Faça ligações para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger
http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/

2009\04\26@232733 by solarwind

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On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 11:00 PM, Bob Blick <spam_OUTbobblickTakeThisOuTspamftml.net> wrote:
> Are there four wires run throughout the house? Because only two wires
> are used for telephone, you can use the extra pair. Forrest mentioned
> the one-wire network, that's a good start, and you can emulate it with
> any PIC.

Thanks. I already have the temperature part done. I'm using DS18B20s
(1wire) and they work great. Now the trouble is making a network with
the PICs. I really don't want to run cables through my house so it
either has to be wireless or use something that is already there such
as phone line or 120 V power outlet.

2009\04\26@232841 by solarwind

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On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 11:05 PM, Isaac Marino Bavaresco
<.....isaacbavarescoKILLspamspam@spam@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
> How about RS-485 ?
> Or even half-duplex RS-232 with a diode in each TX output and a
> pull-down to V- ?
> Or the very inexpensive 433MHz RF modules ?

Where can I get the 433MHz modules?

2009\04\26@233624 by Raymond Hurst

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You can also transmit on the mains at about 100KHz.
Ray

solarwind wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
Ray Hurst
949-202-6037

2009\04\26@234106 by Bob Blick

face
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solarwind wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 11:00 PM, Bob Blick <bobblickspamKILLspamftml.net> wrote:
>> Are there four wires run throughout the house? Because only two wires
>> are used for telephone, you can use the extra pair. Forrest mentioned
>> the one-wire network, that's a good start, and you can emulate it with
>> any PIC.
>
> Thanks. I already have the temperature part done. I'm using DS18B20s
> (1wire) and they work great. Now the trouble is making a network with
> the PICs. I really don't want to run cables through my house so it
> either has to be wireless or use something that is already there such
> as phone line or 120 V power outlet.

And I am suggesting you check to see if your telephone wiring has four
wires, in which case two of them are available to use for a 1-wire
network with PICs. A 1-wire network needs two wires.

-Bob

2009\04\26@234834 by Vitaliy

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Raymond Hurst wrote:
> You can also transmit on the mains at about 100KHz.

Yes, and charge D-cells too. But first, you have to check that there is
enough current (with an ammeter).

Vitaliy

2009\04\26@235511 by solarwind

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On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 11:36 PM, Raymond Hurst <.....rhurst2KILLspamspam.....cox.net> wrote:
> You can also transmit on the mains at about 100KHz.
> Ray

Thanks. How do I do that? I'm worried about the electronics. The
protocol is the easy part. I just need the circuit because I don't
know how to make one myself yet.

2009\04\26@235522 by Isaac Marino Bavaresco

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solarwind escreveu:
> On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 11:05 PM, Isaac Marino Bavaresco
> <EraseMEisaacbavarescospam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTyahoo.com.br> wrote:
>  
>> How about RS-485 ?
>> Or even half-duplex RS-232 with a diode in each TX output and a
>> pull-down to V- ?
>> Or the very inexpensive 433MHz RF modules ?
>>    
>
> Where can I get the 433MHz modules?
>  
I found this link: <http://www.hobbyengineering.com/H2251.html>

These are the same modules I used already, but this shop is expensive.
You should find the same modules by a fraction of this price.

Regards,

Isaac

__________________________________________________
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http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/

2009\04\26@235619 by Vitaliy

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solarwind wrote:
> <isaacbavarescospamspam_OUTyahoo.com.br> wrote:
>> How about RS-485 ?
>> Or even half-duplex RS-232 with a diode in each TX output and a
>> pull-down to V- ?
>> Or the very inexpensive 433MHz RF modules ?
>
> Where can I get the 433MHz modules?

http://www.rentron.com/remote_control/TWS-434.htm

How to use it:

http://www.rentron.com/Stamp_RF.htm


2009\04\26@235847 by solarwind

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On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Bob Blick <@spam@bobblickKILLspamspamftml.net> wrote:
> And I am suggesting you check to see if your telephone wiring has four
> wires, in which case two of them are available to use for a 1-wire
> network with PICs. A 1-wire network needs two wires.

What if all 4 wires are used? What are the other 2 wires used for
anyway? I need a way to modulate the signal over the line so I don't
cause disturbance.

2009\04\26@235913 by solarwind

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On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 11:48 PM, Vitaliy <KILLspamspamKILLspamspammaksimov.org> wrote:
> Yes, and charge D-cells too. But first, you have to check that there is
> enough current (with an ammeter).

Just out of curiosity, what does this have to do with my question?
Just asking...

2009\04\27@000932 by Isaac Marino Bavaresco

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solarwind escreveu:
> On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 11:05 PM, Isaac Marino Bavaresco
> <RemoveMEisaacbavarescoTakeThisOuTspamyahoo.com.br> wrote:
>  
>> How about RS-485 ?
>> Or even half-duplex RS-232 with a diode in each TX output and a
>> pull-down to V- ?
>> Or the very inexpensive 433MHz RF modules ?
>>    
>
> Where can I get the 433MHz modules?
>  

OK, a less expensive shop and in your country:
<http://store.qkits.com/moreinfo.cfm/tx433>
__________________________________________________
Faça ligações para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger
http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/

2009\04\27@001656 by solarwind

picon face
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:09 AM, Isaac Marino Bavaresco
<spamBeGoneisaacbavarescospamBeGonespamyahoo.com.br> wrote:
> OK, a less expensive shop and in your country:
> <http://store.qkits.com/moreinfo.cfm/tx433>

Thanks! I'll get a few of those. I just ordered some  IrDA, CAN, and
RS485 samples from Maxim. Should be here in a month.

2009\04\27@002706 by Bob Blick

face
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solarwind wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Bob Blick <TakeThisOuTbobblickEraseMEspamspam_OUTftml.net> wrote:
>> And I am suggesting you check to see if your telephone wiring has four
>> wires, in which case two of them are available to use for a 1-wire
>> network with PICs. A 1-wire network needs two wires.
>
> What if all 4 wires are used? What are the other 2 wires used for
> anyway? I need a way to modulate the signal over the line so I don't
> cause disturbance.

IF you have 4 wires THEN probably two of them are completely unused and
available. In my house they used 6-conductor cable so I have 4 wires
free. I have also lived in houses with 3-conductor cable, in which case
there wouldn't be enough wires free to use.

You can check right now, just unscrew the cover off the wall plate or
box or whatever you plug your phone into, and look inside.

As far as crosstalk, there's no harm in trying. At least you won't kill
yourself or destroy your computer trying to get a powerline network
going over the AC mains.

Cheers,

Bob

2009\04\27@003937 by solarwind

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On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:27 AM, Bob Blick <RemoveMEbobblickspamTakeThisOuTftml.net> wrote:
> As far as crosstalk, there's no harm in trying. At least you won't kill
> yourself or destroy your computer trying to get a powerline network
> going over the AC mains.

True. I wont touch the AC mains.

What are the other wires used for anyway?

2009\04\27@005125 by Bob Blick

face
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solarwind wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:27 AM, Bob Blick <bobblickEraseMEspam.....ftml.net> wrote:
>> As far as crosstalk, there's no harm in trying. At least you won't kill
>> yourself or destroy your computer trying to get a powerline network
>> going over the AC mains.
>
> True. I wont touch the AC mains.
>
> What are the other wires used for anyway?

Expansion. A second or third telephone line can be added without adding
more cable.

A long time ago I think sometimes a ground wire was used as part of the
ringer signal for party lines, maybe it was just polarity and frequency
that differentiated the different rings. But I haven't seen a party line
for 35 years.

-Bob

2009\04\27@013842 by John Coppens

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On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 22:23:45 -0400
solarwind <EraseMEx.solarwind.xspamgmail.com> wrote:

> One possible solution is to network over wireless, but this is very
> expensive when I have 5 or 6 units to interconnect. Another Idea is
> through the telephone line. How would I modulate signals over the
> telephone line? The aim of the circuit design is that it should be
> simple.

If speed isn't a problem, check for 300 Baud modem chips. They were
used in fax machines and are cheap. TCM3105 used to be a popular one, but
isn't manufactured anymore. DB614 is a more modern one (not too modern
though ;-)

I'm quite afraid of using over-the-mains communications, and it's
complicated. Look for X10 circuits. There are sites with all the
circuitry. X10 only transmits during zero crossing to avoid the
interference on the line.

John

2009\04\27@020436 by AGSCalabrese

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You can set up a relayed IR system fairly cheaply.
Here are some examples:
http://www.parallax.com/tabid/321/Default.aspx
http://diyirrepeater.blogspot.com/
http://english.cxem.net/infrared/ir7.php
Search eBay for "  1W IR High Power LED Light Lamp  "
Gus

2009\04\27@022749 by cdb

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::I 'm quite afraid of using over-the-mains communications, and it's
:: complicated. Look for X10 circuits. There are sites with all the
:: circuitry. X10 only transmits during zero crossing to avoid the
:: interference on the line.

There are or were specialist chips for modemating over the mains
network - I think Texas used to be one supplier.

Colin
--
cdb, RemoveMEcolinEraseMEspamEraseMEbtech-online.co.uk on 27/04/2009

Web presence: http://www.btech-online.co.uk  

Hosted by:  http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=7988359







2009\04\27@024252 by Ruben Jönsson

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> Raymond Hurst wrote:
> > You can also transmit on the mains at about 100KHz.
>
> Yes, and charge D-cells too. But first, you have to check that there is
> enough current (with an ammeter).
>
> Vitaliy
>

Make sure to measure with both leads connected otherwise all electrons will
pour out.

/Ruben==============================
Ruben Jönsson
AB Liros Electronic
Box 9124, 200 39 Malmö, Sweden
TEL INT +46 40142078
FAX INT +46 40947388
RemoveMErubenspam_OUTspamKILLspampp.sbbs.se
==============================

2009\04\27@072830 by Derward Myrick

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----- Original Message -----
From: "solarwind" <RemoveMEx.solarwind.xTakeThisOuTspamspamgmail.com>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <EraseMEpiclistspamspamspamBeGonemit.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: [PIC] Modulation Over Telephone Line for Microcontroller
Network


> On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 11:36 PM, Raymond Hurst <RemoveMErhurst2KILLspamspamcox.net> wrote:
>> You can also transmit on the mains at about 100KHz.
>> Ray
>
> Thanks. How do I do that? I'm worried about the electronics.


<snip>


Solarwind,   Look at this search on carrier current. You ca find all the
info you need.

http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=carrier+current&btnG=Google+Search

Derward Myrick



2009\04\27@074115 by Derward Myrick

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----- Original Message -----
From: "cdb" <colinSTOPspamspamspam_OUTbtech-online.co.uk>
To: <spamBeGonepiclistSTOPspamspamEraseMEmit.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 1:27 AM
Subject: Re: [PIC] Modulation Over Telephone Line for Microcontroller
Network


{Quote hidden}

Colin,  Back in the late 1970s I manufactured CC systems to use as
communication on Oil drilling rigs and we use standard components.

This worked very good, using FM.  I used a 555 for the transmitter
modulator(it is easy to FM) and driver for the final.

Derward Myrick



2009\04\27@075741 by olin piclist

face picon face
solarwind wrote:
> For my next (simple) project, I'm trying to build a network of PICs
> that will monitor temperature at various places around the house.
>
> The problem: how do I create a network?

If you can run your own cable, CAN sounds very appropriate for this.

********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2009\04\27@090155 by Herbert Graf

picon face
On Sun, 2009-04-26 at 22:23 -0400, solarwind wrote:
> Hey all!
>
> For my next (simple) project, I'm trying to build a network of PICs
> that will monitor temperature at various places around the house.
>
> The problem: how do I create a network?

Use ethernet.

Perhaps overkill, but if this is a hobby project the per unit cost is
far less important.

My house monitoring network is all ethernet. The beauty is adding
anything to it is a breeze (since many areas of the house already has
ethernet since I added it when I got the house). Even when not, adding
ethernet to another room has benefits that are far beyond just your
network of PICs.

2009\04\27@090357 by Herbert Graf

picon face
On Sun, 2009-04-26 at 21:27 -0700, Bob Blick wrote:
> solarwind wrote:
> > On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Bob Blick <KILLspambobblickspamBeGonespamftml.net> wrote:
> >> And I am suggesting you check to see if your telephone wiring has four
> >> wires, in which case two of them are available to use for a 1-wire
> >> network with PICs. A 1-wire network needs two wires.
> >
> > What if all 4 wires are used? What are the other 2 wires used for
> > anyway? I need a way to modulate the signal over the line so I don't
> > cause disturbance.
>
> IF you have 4 wires THEN probably two of them are completely unused and
> available. In my house they used 6-conductor cable so I have 4 wires
> free. I have also lived in houses with 3-conductor cable, in which case
> there wouldn't be enough wires free to use.

JUst note that some installers, while they use say 4 wire cable, don't
actually hook the extra pair up to anything.

Phone cabling is usually daisy chained from outlet to outlet, so if this
is the case you'll have to open each outlet and complete the daisy
chain.

Very annoying...

TTYL

2009\04\27@091459 by Ariel Rocholl

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Take a look on 433MHZ SPI modules on Futurlec, very cheap, easy to work with
and reasonably robust for these projects. These are far better than the
dummy AM modules without digital control nor PLL.

http://www.futurlec.com/Radio.shtml


2009/4/27 Vitaliy <EraseMEspamspamEraseMEmaksimov.org>

{Quote hidden}

> -

2009\04\27@092805 by Marechiare

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> One possible solution is to network over wireless, but this is very
> expensive when I have 5 or 6 units to interconnect.

MRF24J40-I/ML is only US$3.24

MRF24J40 is a complete IEEE 802.15.4 radio and operates in the 2.4GHz
band. The MRF24J40 supports ZigBee™, MiWi™ protocols and proprietary
protocols to provide an ideal solution for wireless sensor networks,
home automation, building automation and consumer applications.

http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Devices.aspx?dDocName=en027752

Good Luck

2009\04\27@092816 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Herbert Graf <spamBeGonehkgrafspamKILLspamgmail.com> wrote:
> Use ethernet.
> Perhaps overkill, but if this is a hobby project the per unit cost is
> far less important.

Both CAN and Ethernet might be a big too complicated for the
OP. But both are good ideas. Might worth a try since the
OP is truly with a lot of energy and has good background.
If comparing the two, Ethernet may be a better option.

Microchip has the TCP/IP stack ready so this may be
a plus. The hardware side can be a bit more challenging
for hobbyists though.

--
Xiaofan http://mcuee.blogspot.com

2009\04\27@130731 by Vitaliy

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Marechiare wrote:
> One possible solution is to network over wireless, but this is very
> expensive when I have 5 or 6 units to interconnect.

>MRF24J40-I/ML is only US$3.24

MRF24J40 is a complete IEEE 802.15.4 radio and operates in the 2.4GHz
band. The MRF24J40 supports ZigBee™, MiWi™ protocols and proprietary
protocols to provide an ideal solution for wireless sensor networks,
home automation, building automation and consumer applications.

http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Devices.aspx?dDocName=en027752

Good Luck<

Have you ever designed using this part?

2009\04\27@180324 by solarwind

picon face
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 9:14 AM, Ariel Rocholl <.....forosspam_OUTspamarocholl.com> wrote:
> Take a look on 433MHZ SPI modules on Futurlec, very cheap, easy to work with
> and reasonably robust for these projects. These are far better than the
> dummy AM modules without digital control nor PLL.
>
> http://www.futurlec.com/Radio.shtml

Those are the best ones I've seen so far. Thanks. However they're a
bit expensive. Then again... what isn't these days...

2009\04\27@184231 by Vitaliy

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solarwind wrote:
>> Take a look on 433MHZ SPI modules on Futurlec, very cheap, easy to work
>> with
>> and reasonably robust for these projects. These are far better than the
>> dummy AM modules without digital control nor PLL.
>>
>> http://www.futurlec.com/Radio.shtml
>
> Those are the best ones I've seen so far. Thanks. However they're a
> bit expensive. Then again... what isn't these days...

Expensive, compared to what? I don't know what the minimum wage is in
Canada, but I would be surprised if you make less filth per hour, than the
cost of the module.

Vitaliy

2009\04\27@221020 by solarwind

picon face
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Vitaliy <TakeThisOuTspam.....spamTakeThisOuTmaksimov.org> wrote:
> Expensive, compared to what? I don't know what the minimum wage is in
> Canada, but I would be surprised if you make less filth per hour, than the
> cost of the module.
>
> Vitaliy

No, in fact I do earn more filth per hour than the module's cost as
well as the minimum wage here in Canada.

2009\04\28@095357 by Marechiare

picon face
>> The MRF24J40 supports ZigBee™, MiWi™ protocols
>> and proprietary protocols to provide an ideal solution
>> for wireless sensor networks, home automation, building
>> automation and consumer applications.
>>
>> www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Devices.aspx?dDocName=en027752
>>
>> Good Luck
>>
> Have you ever designed using this part?

What the info is needed for?

2009\04\28@101617 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
>>> www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Devices.aspx?dDocName=en027752
>>>
>>> Good Luck
>>>
>> Have you ever designed using this part?
>
> What the info is needed for?

I guess the suggestion is that this is not a very easy chip to work
with. Info to the contrary would be appreciated.

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2009\04\28@121300 by Marechiare

picon face
>>>> www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Devices.aspx?dDocName=en027752
>>>>
>>>> Good Luck
>>>>
>>> Have you ever designed using this part?
>>
>> What the info is needed for?
>
> I guess the suggestion is that this is not a very easy chip
> to work with. Info to the contrary would be appreciated.


There is no need to suggest anything. Just let him get

===

PICDEM Z Demonstration Kit

www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en021925
http://www.microchipdirect.com/productsearch.aspx?Keywords=DM163027

PICDEM™ Z 2.4 GHz Demonstration Kit is an easy-to-use evaluation and
development platform for IEEE 802.15.4 application designers. This kit
includes Microchip’s MRF24J40 transceiver and also features
Microchip’s PIC18 high-performance microcontroller family. The kit
includes complete hardware, software source code and printed circuit
board (PCB) layout files needed to rapidly prototype wireless
products. The demonstration kit includes the ZigBee protocol stack and
two PICDEM Z boards, each with an RF daughter card. The demonstration
board is also equipped with a 6-pin modular connector to interface
directly with Microchip's MPLAB® ICD 2 In-Circuit Debugger (DV164005).
With MPLAB ICD 2, the developer can reprogram or modify the PIC18 MCU
Flash memory and develop and debug application code all on the same
platform. Microchip MPLAB IDE software is available for download on
the Microchip web site at no charge.

===

Yes, it's priced US$270, but it's realistic professional hardware set,
not a virtual one in someone's head. As stated, the kit includes
complete hardware, software source code and printed circuit board
(PCB) layout files needed to rapidly prototype wireless products.
What's the point about whining that something is not very easy?
Nothing is easy with the attitude.

2009\04\28@164447 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
Clearsea,

You might want to read the original post (and some of the suggestions made
by other people) before you jump in. Solarwind balked at the price of $6
transmitters, what makes you think he'll buy a $270 kit?


>>> Have you ever designed using this part?
>>
>> What the info is needed for?

This sounds like a childish attempt to dodge the question. :-)

The reason I asked whether you ever designed using the MRF24J40, is because
I read the datasheet, and building a working transceiver around it without
appropriate skills and equipment does not seem like a trivial task. If you
have in fact built projects based on this chip, I would ask you more
specific questions. If you don't, I will just say that suggesting it as a
possible solution to a newcomer, is irresponsible.

Vitaliy




{Original Message removed}

2009\04\28@175829 by Adam Field

flavicon
face
>> You can also transmit on the mains at about 100KHz.
>> Ray
>
> Thanks. How do I do that? I'm worried about the electronics. The
> protocol is the easy part. I just need the circuit because I don't
> know how to make one myself yet.

Here's Microchip's X10 appnote:

ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/AppNotes/00236a.pdf

X10 is a network that transmits on your mains line. It does work in
most cases, but isn't very robust.

2009\04\29@121155 by Marechiare

picon face
> Clearsea,
>
> You might want to read the original post (and some of the
> suggestions made by other people) before you jump in.
> Solarwind balked at the price of $6 transmitters, what
> makes you think he'll buy a $270 kit?
>
>
>>>> Have you ever designed using this part?
>>>
>>> What the info is needed for?
>
> This sounds like a childish attempt to dodge the
> question. :-)


Excelent :-)


> If you have in fact built projects based on this chip,
> I would ask you more specific questions. If you don't,
> I will just say that suggesting it as a possible solution
> to a newcomer, is irresponsible.

He is not a newcomer, and his income is quite good as he stated
already.  Was it irresponsible or not, to suggest on PICList for the
software developer with about 1 year PIC related experience to get
hands on a PIC based Starter Kit, it's not your business, let the
moderators decide.

2009\04\29@184029 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
Marechiare wrote:
>  Was it irresponsible or not, to suggest on PICList for the
> software developer with about 1 year PIC related experience to get
> hands on a PIC based Starter Kit,

So he should spend $300 per kit, and buy a kit for every room?

At first I thought you did not understand the original spec, but originally
you cited cost as the primary advantage of your solution: "MRF24J40-I/ML is
only US$3.24".


> it's not your business, let the
> moderators decide.

Let the moderators decide what? You are free to express your opinion, I am
free to express my opinion about your opinion.

Vitaliy


'[PIC] Modulation Over Telephone Line for Microcont'
2009\05\01@110738 by Marechiare
picon face
> > Was it irresponsible or not, to suggest on PICList for
> > the software developer with about 1 year PIC related
> > experience to get hands on a PIC based Starter Kit,
>
> So he should spend $300 per kit, and buy a kit for every
> room?
>
> At first I thought you did not understand the original spec,
> but originally you cited cost as the primary advantage of
> your solution: "MRF24J40-I/ML is only US$3.24".

It is not my solution, it's Microchip's one :-)  And the original
specs were about getting more EE experience. Otherwise he could just
buy some cheap Chineese digital thermometers.

He doesn't need a kit for every room. The kit would help him
developing his devices. Regarding the price, if he really couldn't
afford it, he could try to get it cheaper or even for free. For
example he could go to MCHP office in Toronto (the phones in every
MCHP datasheet) and tell the folks that he is an EE student, loves
PICs but is limited on cash (did not drink beer for a couple of months
and had saved only hundred bucks, can't wait till $270). Or he could
go to his EE professor and ask him if the University could get the
kit, and he would develop some devices based on the chip for the Uni.

The complexity you talked about, actually works for him, because it is
not analog or PIC-specific - all the code, PCB layout, schematic, bil
of materials are included. And the motherboard even contains the
Microchip TC77 thermal sensor with SPI interface. The complexity is
mostly about handling protocols, as I see it. As a Linux developer he
should be able to handle it quite well.

If he managed to develop some practical Linux based wireless sensor
network, I'd suggest, many pros on the list, and beyond it, would be
happy getting him to their EE labs after he finished the university.


> > it's not your business, let the
> > moderators decide.
>
> Let the moderators decide what? You are free
> to express your opinion, I am free to express
> my opinion about your opinion.

Yes, you are free, but there is no such thing as absolute freedom,
some restrictions still apply. Thanks for not escalating the flame
level of the thead.

2009\05\01@230046 by solarwind

picon face
On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Marechiare <TakeThisOuTmarechiareKILLspamspamspamgmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Hi. I appreciate your suggestions. I have already developed the
thermal management side of the system (using DS18B20 1 wire sensor in
TO-92 package). The only problem is the communications system.

2009\05\02@133803 by Marechiare

picon face
> Hi. I appreciate your suggestions. I have already developed the
> thermal management side of the system (using DS18B20 1 wire sensor in
> TO-92 package). The only problem is the communications system.

Hi, but, please, the suggestion to talk to MCHP folks that you saved
money on beer is applicable only if you really did not drink it and
thus saved the cash :-) No need to misinform anyone.

>> For example he could go to MCHP office in Toronto (the phones in every
>> MCHP datasheet) and tell the folks that he is an EE student, loves
>> PICs but is limited on cash (did not drink beer for a couple of months
>> and had saved only hundred bucks, can't wait till $270). Or he could

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