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PICList Thread
'[PIC] PIC development STINKS'
2002\08\01@084532 by Brandon Stewart

picon face
I believe that some are missing the point.  For example,
Atmel provides a free C compiler.  And I noticed that no
one argued that this was indeed Microchip's original
intention: to offer free development tools to get as
many people using their product as possible.
Someone mentioned 'why would microchip want to go and
provide a free compiler for a hobbiest'.  That was a
valid thought.  But there are tons of small business,
entrepreneurs, and mom 'n pop places out there that
could develop higher demands for these Microchip product
lines if they were provided additional tools (LIKE A C
COMPILER).  But they don't because the only C compiler
that is worth a darn (High Tech) is around $1k!
Maybe some of you other (smart butts) are right:  "I
make your skin crawl because I am just another hobbiest
who wants something free" and " I think they should give
their chips away for free too".  But while you guys were
making childish attacks, I was merely asking a valid
question.  It would be right along with Microchip's
stated initiative to offer as many free development
tools as possible.  This was there model.  Until they
found out that they could make money on that too!
Microchip did give out a free C compiler at one time,
for a very short time.  Now, Microchip will sell a C
compiler for its 18Fxxxx parts!  I was just throwing out
the observation that they are going back on their
original business model.  I suggest that this is out of
corporate greed.  And Yes, I was soliciting for
everyones thoughts on the matter.  But if childish
remarks are the best intellectual response that you can
respond with, then please don't waste everyone's time :).
> Oooooooooh - so all those hundreds of PIC16C72A 's that I've just bought for
> selling on ;-) weren't a waste of money after all :)
>
> You've just made my day Rajiv
>
>
> {Original Message removed}

2002\08\01@085148 by Wouter van Ooijen

picon face
I can think of one reason for a chips vendor not to offer a free
compiler: if they do, no-one else will likely offer another one. This
might be a worse situation than having no free compiler but a bunch of
competing commercial ones.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- ------------------------------------
http://www.voti.nl
PICmicro chips, programmers, consulting

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2002\08\01@113404 by Matt Pobursky

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face
On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 14:50:15 +0200, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
>I can think of one reason for a chips vendor not to offer a free
>compiler: if they do, no-one else will likely offer another one. This
>might be a worse situation than having no free compiler but a bunch of
>competing commercial ones.
>

A very good point Wouter!

Just look at the number of 3rd party IDE's for the PIC -- virtually
NONE. Why? Because MPLAB is free and from Microchip. I'm not a big fan
of MPLAB, but I have no choice.

OTOH, I believe C compilers can be done with a model of:

1) cheap, entry level version. Code size limited. Lets you get your
hands on the real compiler, generate real code and do small projects.

2) A mid-range version, for a small cost (Maybe $100US?) that allows a
much larger program -- say 8K words for the PIC. Allows serious
development work for most projects and serious hobbyist, casual
professional use. The price point lets almost anyone have a "real
tool".

3) An unlimited version that does everything a professional developer
would want. No code size restrictions, more library functions, all
flavors of PIC supported, etc. For a professional developer who can
justify the cost -- and gets to earn income from it to pay for it ;-).

Development tools are a difficult proposition regardless because it's a
niche market of limited size (by desktop software standards).
Programmers have to eat and the engineering man hours required to
develop good tools is significant -- someone has to pay for them.
Divide those costs over a limited number of sales (even if you get a
huge market share) and you can see why good tools are expensive. Let's
face it, a simple bootloader or programmer is a small project compared
to a full IDE or C compiler for the entire PIC family.

Matt Pobursky
Maximum Performance Systems

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2002\08\01@132958 by BryanW

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Brandon Stewart wrote:
> I believe that some are missing the point.  For example,
> Atmel provides a free C compiler.  And I noticed that no

When?

Atmel do not have their own compiler. That is why all their app notes
recommed the IAR or ICC compilers. If you are talking about the AVRGCC
then this is an opensource project, developed by someone else.

Bryan

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2002\08\01@134857 by Roman Black

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Brandon Stewart wrote:
>
> I believe that some are missing the point.  For example,
> Atmel provides a free C compiler.  And I noticed that no
> one argued that this was indeed Microchip's original
> intention: to offer free development tools to get as
> many people using their product as possible.
> Someone mentioned 'why would microchip want to go and
> provide a free compiler for a hobbiest'.  That was a
> valid thought.  But there are tons of small business,
> entrepreneurs, and mom 'n pop places out there that
> could develop higher demands for these Microchip product
> lines if they were provided additional tools (LIKE A C
> COMPILER). <snip>


I can see the next PIC Masters conferences, hordes
of piclist members talking to Microchip staff, each loyal
piclist (teamster?) member wearing the new intimidating
T-shirt;
"We want a free C compiler NOW (you bastards)"
:o)
-Roman

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2002\08\01@170959 by Matt Pobursky

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On Fri, 2 Aug 2002 03:46:20 +1000, Roman Black wrote:
>I can see the next PIC Masters conferences, hordes
>of piclist members talking to Microchip staff, each loyal
>piclist (teamster?) member wearing the new intimidating
>T-shirt;
>"We want a free C compiler NOW (you bastards)"
>:o)
>-Roman

Bwahahaha... I just lost about a pint of soda out my nose!

need to clean my monitor now... ;-)

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