Post by thread:[PIC] Re: Of serial and parallel programmers

On 10/9/05, Anand Dhuru <spam_OUTardhuruTakeThisOuTvsnl.com> wrote: > Hello, > > I have two self assembled prgrammers; an EPIC clone (parallel port, David > Tait type) that works happily with *all* flash chips. My serial programmer > (a JDM compatible) worked with all PICs as well, till I tried the 16F628A > (no problems with the 16F628) > > Now here is the funny part. New chips fresh from the tube cant be read or > written. If one of these is programmed in the EPIC, then one *can* read it > in the JDM compatible. But if you erase it, then again one cant read it (and > of course write to it) *unless* you program it in the EPIC again. Never seen this behaviour. I'm using the same programmers (more or less) like you. A good parallel programmer will *always* read a fresh device. The serial JDM style programmers fails on COM ports which does not assure the programming current (ie the ICSP methode with high loads on Sclk and Sdat). > > This observation led me to beleive it was to do with the LVP pin, perhaps. > So, I tried grounding the LVP pin the the JDM, but I still have no success. LVP is supercedeed by HVP. So any HVP is able to write LVP config fuses. There is no relation between those if you are using HVP. > > I tried 2 different programmer software(s?), with the same result. > > Is there something obvious I am missing? > > BTW, both programmers are being used on a desktop with XP (no problem of an > under-powered serial port). Try to move on other operating system and see what you've got. Or maybe you have some hardware problems on your programmers. cheers, Vasile

> I have two self assembled prgrammers; an EPIC clone (parallel port, David > Tait type) that works happily with *all* flash chips. My serial programmer > (a JDM compatible) worked with all PICs as well, till I tried the 16F628A > (no problems with the 16F628) > > Now here is the funny part. New chips fresh from the tube cant be read or > written. If one of these is programmed in the EPIC, then one *can* read it > in the JDM compatible. But if you erase it, then again one cant read it (and > of course write to it) *unless* you program it in the EPIC again. You are aware that the A version uses a different program algorithm? This is probably your problem, if you do not select the correct part in the selection. If the A part is not available as an option, then you will not be able to do it with this software.

On 10/10/05, Anand Dhuru <.....ardhuruKILLspam@spam@vsnl.com> wrote: > > > > > You are aware that the A version uses a different program algorithm? This > > > is > > probably your problem, if you do not select the correct part in the > > selection. If the A part is not available as an option, then you will not > > > be > > able to do it with this software. > > All the packages I tried did have the 16F628A option. (WinPIC, WinPIC800 and Nigel's Goodwin and Bony's Gijzen software, you are talking about, works perfect with Tait (HVP or LVP) and JDM hardware. Those are my favourites software programmers. You miss something and I don't know what. Vasile

I have never used any of these packages but I have read quite some good comments about Winpic and Winpic800. WinPIC800 seems to be very impressive by supporting large amount of chips including dsPIC. I guess GTP-USB (a PIC programmer by the author of WinPIC800) will be quite happy to support dsPICs. But WinPIC800/IC-Prog claims to support many simple programmers like JDM/Tait/... How reliable when using JDM/Tait with WinPIC800 or WinPIC or IC-Prog? I have heard enough bad thing about JDM. I have not heard too much bad things about Tait type. In fact some of the variants seems to support lots of PICs. What is the major difference? Is Tait type really much more reliable than JDM? Or is it that Tait type is not so popular so that there are less problems reported? Regards, Xiaofan {Original Message removed}

----- Original Message ----- From: "Chen Xiao Fan" <xiaofanKILLspamsg.pepperl-fuchs.com> To: "'Microcontroller discussion list - Public.'" <.....piclistKILLspam.....mit.edu> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 8:32 AM Subject: RE: [PIC] Re: Of serial and parallel programmers >I have never used any of these packages but I have read quite > some good comments about Winpic and Winpic800. WinPIC800 > seems to be very impressive by supporting large amount > of chips including dsPIC. I guess GTP-USB (a PIC programmer > by the author of WinPIC800) will be quite happy to support > dsPICs. But WinPIC800/IC-Prog claims to support many simple > programmers like JDM/Tait/... How reliable when using JDM/Tait > with WinPIC800 or WinPIC or IC-Prog? Both packages (Winpic and WinPIC800) are excellent, and *way* faster than ICPROG. They both support a lot of standard hardware designs, both serial port and parallel port based. They both also have a hardware test feature that one can use to manually toggle clock, data, Vpp lines to ensure that the sleceted option is right for your hardware. Winpic lets you create custom files for PICs not yet defined in its library, though most already are. In addition, Winpic800 has a feature that detects the PIC in the socket which I find useful so that one doesnt have to change the selected device from PIC to PIC. The packages themselves are both pretty reliable. When it comes to hardware, the JDM (and the variants) are very finnicky about the serial port, but I have not had a problem till the current one concerning 16F628As. The parallel port EPIC (a Tait type), on the other hand has never let me down, accross a number of devices. > > I have heard enough bad thing about JDM. I have not heard > too much bad things about Tait type. In fact some of the > variants seems to support lots of PICs. What is the major > difference? Is Tait type really much more reliable than To sum up, yes. The Tait type is definately more dependable. > JDM? Or is it that Tait type is not so popular so that > there are less problems reported? I dont think so; they are as, if not more popular. The parallel port programmers are inherently more reliable as they dont rely on the RS232's voltages for Vpp generation; they use an external supply. Regards, Anand

Does the Tait Type support dsPICs with WinPIC800/WinPIC? Are there any similar package under Linux for Tait type which supports many PICs and even dsPICs? Sorry I have no idea of any Tait type programmers. {Quote hidden}> > > I have heard enough bad thing about JDM. I have not heard > > too much bad things about Tait type. In fact some of the > > variants seems to support lots of PICs. What is the major > > difference? Is Tait type really much more reliable than > > To sum up, yes. The Tait type is definately more dependable. > > > JDM? Or is it that Tait type is not so popular so that > > there are less problems reported? > > I dont think so; they are as, if not more popular. The parallel port > programmers are inherently more reliable as they dont rely on the RS232's > voltages for Vpp generation; they use an external supply. > > Regards, > > Anand > > -

> Does the Tait Type support dsPICs with WinPIC800/WinPIC? > Are there any similar package under Linux for Tait type which > supports many PICs and even dsPICs? Sorry I have no > idea of any Tait type programmers. > Yes, they do. The version I have is a home made clone of the EPIC, which is a classic Tait design variant. It works with both Winpic, Winpic800, and of course the bundled EPIC software. The programmer is availabe from http://www.melabs.com, or one can build one's own. Regards, Anand

On 10/11/05, Chen Xiao Fan <EraseMExiaofanspam_OUTTakeThisOuTsg.pepperl-fuchs.com> wrote: > I have never used any of these packages Because probably you never had the curiosity to check who written the IC prog for example ... and you are maybe too young to heard about David Tait LPT programmer and the hardware difference between Tait and JDM. Tait is not only the most popular, but was also cloned by Microchip into an application note which was published on the web after (or anyway, in the same time) the Tait LPT programmer. :) cheers, Vasile but I have read quite {Quote hidden}> some good comments about Winpic and Winpic800. WinPIC800 > seems to be very impressive by supporting large amount > of chips including dsPIC. I guess GTP-USB (a PIC programmer > by the author of WinPIC800) will be quite happy to support > dsPICs. But WinPIC800/IC-Prog claims to support many simple > programmers like JDM/Tait/... How reliable when using JDM/Tait > with WinPIC800 or WinPIC or IC-Prog? > > I have heard enough bad thing about JDM. I have not heard > too much bad things about Tait type. In fact some of the > variants seems to support lots of PICs. What is the major > difference? Is Tait type really much more reliable than > JDM? Or is it that Tait type is not so popular so that > there are less problems reported? > > Regards, > Xiaofan > > {Original Message removed}

Yes I am quite young with PIC, slightly less than 6 years old and with one and half a year break. The problem is that started with Promate II/ICE2000/Hitech PICC 7.85 and I started to feel I should think like a hobbyist only last year when I decide to join PIClist. I did tried PonyProg long ago but I was using it to program EEPROMs for the ASi bus ( actuator-sensor interface) device. Later the EEPROMs are integrated into the ASi ASIC and it was not used any more. I have looked at IC-Prog before to replace PonyProg. But to be honest, I just noticed the name of the author after your post. Is he very famous? I am wondering if I should feel embarassed if it turns out that he is really very very famous. ;-) However, COM port and LPT port are both considered as legacy ports. Therefore I think JDM/Tait should also be considered as legacy. Maybe many people will think I am wrong but I feel the future of the programmers are USB based last year when I started to use PICkit 1. I feel even more so after I bought the PICkit 2. Regards, Xiaofan On 10/13/05, Vasile Surducan wrote: {Quote hidden}> > I have never used any of these packages > > Because probably you never had the curiosity to check who written the > IC prog for example ... and you are maybe too young to heard about > David Tait LPT programmer and the hardware difference between Tait and > JDM. Tait is not only the most popular, but was also cloned by > Microchip into an application note which was published on the web > after (or anyway, in the same time) the Tait LPT programmer. > > :) > > cheers, > Vasile >