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'Do I need a Scope for PIC Projects?'
1997\11\17@104254 by casmith

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Hi,
       I am about to venture into the world of pics for the first time.
I am a recent EE grad and would like to do some home projects to get
alot of analog and mixed signal design experience ( I am currently
working as a digital hardware engineer). I have started to gather
equipment.. like a soldering iron (which is a must) and multimeter. I
need to get a dual power supply (+/- 20V), maybe a AC source. I have
been thinking of getting a scope but as you know they aren't cheap. Have
any of you guys have been able to get along fine without one. I am also
trying to get a hook up on a logic analyzer( I know a little bit of a
luxury :). However back to that scope question? Can I do without it?

Cary

1997\11\17@124451 by J.Adams

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At 10:01 AM 11/17/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi,
>        I am about to venture into the world of pics for the first time.
>I am a recent EE grad and would like to do some home projects to get
>alot of analog and mixed signal design experience ( I am currently
>working as a digital hardware engineer). I have started to gather
>equipment.. like a soldering iron (which is a must) and multimeter. I
>need to get a dual power supply (+/- 20V), maybe a AC source. I have
>been thinking of getting a scope but as you know they aren't cheap. Have
>any of you guys have been able to get along fine without one. I am also
>trying to get a hook up on a logic analyzer( I know a little bit of a
>luxury :). However back to that scope question? Can I do without it?
>
>Cary
>
John Adams ---------------------------- spam_OUTelectronicsTakeThisOuTspampobox.com
http://pobox.com/~electronics ----------- Check out the H.W.S
Internet Guide to Electronics book as well. Links on my site.

1997\11\17@180538 by lilel

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> I have started to gather
> >equipment.. like a soldering iron (which is a must) and multimeter

Radio shack (this is unusual) sells a great multimeter with a
transistor tester, freq counter and capacitance tester for $100.  It
has a RS232 interface, aand I've used it as a simple datalogger.
It's durable (unlike most radio shack junk) and recommended.  Get a
good selection of hemostats, tiny diagonal cutters, little vises,
exacto knifes, tiny screwqdrivers, itty bitty needlenose pliers, and
any other miniature hand tool you can think of.  Get off of the
kitchen table onto a sturdy bench with a lot of light - it will save
your marriage as well as your eyes..

>. I
> >need to get a dual power supply (+/- 20V),

Build one.  Definitely.  I consider building your own bench power
a must project.  My first one lasted 20 years.  You should be able to
build it in an afternoon.  You'll use it every day and be proud of
it.

>maybe a AC source.

All I've ever had was a cord with two alligator clips on one end
(unless you mean a signal generator...)

>I have
> >been thinking of getting a scope but as you know they aren't cheap.

My first scope I bought for $50 US.  Nice dual trace model, wieghed
in at 150 LBS.  My current home/hobby scope is better - cost $40 and
weighes 200 LBS.  NOBODY's gonna steal it.  In magic marker it sez on
the case "Original purchased prices $3500".  It takes ten minutes
for the tubes to light up.  My next scope was a "portable".  75 LBS,
only $10.  The guy didn't even know what it was.

Don't buy a new scope for your hobbies.  Get your boss to buy a new
scope.

>Have
> >any of you guys have been able to get along fine without one.

NOBODY gets along fine without a scope unless they are working on
PLUMBING or fixing CARS.


Best Regards,

Lawrence Lile

1997\11\18@065207 by Geoff Wootton

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On Mon, 17 Nov 1997, Lawrence Lile wrote:

> NOBODY gets along fine without a scope unless they are working on
> PLUMBING or fixing CARS.

Well how do you check your crankshaft angle sensor, knock sensor,
injector dwell angle, CTS, MAP sensor, MCU etc then?


Geoff

1997\11\18@142256 by Steve Smith

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In a message dated 18/11/97  11:52:43, you write:

<<
Well how do you check your crankshaft angle sensor, knock sensor,
injector dwell angle, CTS, MAP sensor, MCU etc then?
 >>
With Hammer..........

1997\11\24@112207 by lilel

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> On Mon, 17 Nov 1997, Lawrence Lile wrote:
>
> > NOBODY gets along fine without a scope unless they are working on
> > PLUMBING or fixing CARS.
>
> Well how do you check your crankshaft angle sensor, knock sensor,
> injector dwell angle, CTS, MAP sensor, MCU etc then?
>
>
> Geoff

I'm talking about fixing '57 Chevy's.   Under a shade tree.  With no
AC power in sight.  Using Big Hammers.  You know, Crude.

BTW plumbing fixtures now come with motion sensors built into them as
well.

Best Regards,

Lawrence Lile


'Do I need a Scope for PIC Projects?'
1997\12\01@121358 by Martin R. Green
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Cary, IMNSHO, it is false economy to try to get along without a scope.
Next to a meter, it is the most useful piece of equipment on a bench,
even a digital bench.  I suggest you look for a good used scope.
Several years ago I found a 50MHz dual trace HP scope (in PWO) for
$250 CDN at a local (Toronto) surplus dealer.  Recently I saw another
local surplus dealer had about 50 Tek scopes, again 50MHz dual trace
amd $250 CDN.  Used scopes from the dealers that advertise in the EE
magazines tend to be more expensive.

My advice, bite the bullet and buy a scope, you will never regret it.

CIAO - Martin R. Green

On Mon, 17 Nov 1997 10:01:51 -0500, Cary Smith
<.....casmithKILLspamspam@spam@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Martin R. Green
mrgreenspamKILLspamNOSPAMbigfoot.com

To reply, remove the NOSPAM from the return address.
Stamp out SPAM everywhere!!!

1997\12\01@183902 by Andrew Mayo

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I'd rather have a scope than a logic analyser. But if you want a logic
analyser, one of the electronic magazines (I think it was Wireless
World) published a very slick multi-channel one (not a toy) a year or so
ago and this would be much cheaper to build than to buy a commercial
unit. Sorry I can't remember exactly which mag it was - I'll dig through
my copies at home and see if I can find it.

You need a 50MHz dual-trace unit - and make sure the probes are Ok -
they're quite expensive to replace.

{Quote hidden}

1997\12\03@133530 by Jim Main

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In article <KILLspam34705C5F.7E87KILLspamspamlynx.dac.neu.edu>, Cary Smith
<RemoveMEcasmithTakeThisOuTspamLYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU> writes
>Hi,
>need to get a dual power supply (+/- 20V), maybe a AC source. I have
>been thinking of getting a scope but as you know they aren't cheap. Have
>any of you guys have been able to get along fine without one.

If you can afford it, get a storage scope - they are brilliant for
capturing then expanding burst data - very useful for pic
applications...

Jim

--
Jim Main

1997\12\04@021702 by Pasi T Mustalahti

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On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Jim Main wrote:

> In article <spamBeGone34705C5F.7E87spamBeGonespamlynx.dac.neu.edu>, Cary Smith
> <TakeThisOuTcasmithEraseMEspamspam_OUTLYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU> writes
> >Hi,
> >need to get a dual power supply (+/- 20V), maybe a AC source. I have
> >been thinking of getting a scope but as you know they aren't cheap. Have
> >any of you guys have been able to get along fine without one.
>
> If you can afford it, get a storage scope - they are brilliant for
> capturing then expanding burst data - very useful for pic
> applications...
PTM: If you can afford it, hire a R&D laboratory and a bunch of
specialists there. If you are in a tight budjet or just for fun take a LED
and a 470 Ohm resistor and make an indicator of those so that you can see
what goes where. In some sittuations you can use RC instead of Xtal and
run your PIC near 0 Hz so you don't need memory scopes. When everything is
Ok you throw the Xtal in and there you are.
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1997\12\04@090352 by Peter van Hoof

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My idea as well, and i might add to that, a simple logic probe available
for a couple dollars from radio shack/ tandy usually works out great

Most software problems you can easy find with one of the pic simulators
available

Not all of us have money/space for a scope/ logic analiser

       Peter van Hoof   <EraseMEpvhspammicroserve.net>


{Original Message removed}

1997\12\05@124029 by lilel

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> My idea as well, and i might add to that, a simple logic probe
> available for a couple dollars from radio shack/ tandy usually works
> out great



Before I was able to get an emulater (ICEPIC in my case) I was
stumped as to what was going on inside my PICs.  I built a crude
in-circuit tester consisting of a 1K resistor and an LED connected to
each port pin.  A set of DIP switches connected each LED to the pin,
or not.  I found this to be very usefuil in figgerring out what was
going on inside a circuit.  On simple one and two output designs, I
could use PORTA as the I/O, and the entire PORTB was used as a
diagnostic output.  For instance, you can watch a counter increment
or have the program put a variable out on PORTB to check it's value.

I think this was a great project for a beginner.  After purchasing an
emulator I'd never use it again.
Best Regards,

Lawrence Lile

1997\12\05@151528 by Sean Breheny

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{Quote hidden}

invaluable to me in very complex microprocessor circuits is a simple FIFO.
There are static 1k 8bit or 16bit FIFO buffers available which have a
simple write enable/increment pin interface. For example: take an 8 bit
1kbyte FIFO and hook 8 LEDs to its outputs, a switch to its reset pin, a
debounced switch to its increment pin, and its inputs to an 8-bit bus that
you want to debug and its increment pin to a pin which pulses on the bus
when each byte is sent. This way, you can generate a "log file" of the last
1024 bytes sent over the bus and step through them at your leisure.

Sean

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| Sean Breheny                   |
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| Electrical Engineering Student |
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