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PICList Thread
'OT Threads [OT]'
1999\07\26@174135 by Andy Kunz

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Kelly,

Normally I gain a lot from your postings.  This time I disagree.

>I have one absolute rule with my employees and business associates: Sex,
>Politics and Religion are anathema in the work-place. Period. No
>Discussion.

That would be fine in a corporate environment.  However, many (most?) of
the folks on the list are hobbyists (that is, this isn't company time) or
self-employed (again, not company time).

Personally, I enjoy the political and religious discussions on this list (I
better, seein's how I'm one of the big offenders).

>What you do on your own time is your business but the minute it
>impinges on a business/technical tool--such as a list nominally aimed at
>technical issues--it severely impacts the usefulness of the tool, and the
>willingness of knowledgeable people to participate.

BUT THIS IS MY OWN TIME!  Yes, it may impact the usefulness of the tool.
We have a very diverse group here, and to manage that diversity we have
made [OT] the standard to communicate off-topic threads.

I do not find my willingness to respond affected for ill whatsoever by the
off-topic posts.  You see, Eudora (both Pro and freebie versions) have
Filters.  I can set them to take care of that for me.  If I don't want, I
never see them - I could, in fact, route them straight into the Trash.

I don't though - they are often read BEFORE the technical notes.

The OT markings are there specifically to help move things around in your
e-mail program automatically.  Set it up to filter things for you based on
the [OT] marking.

If you don't like it, use the Delete key.

Just my 2 cents.

Andy

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1999\07\26@175004 by paulb

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Andy Kunz wrote:

> Personally, I enjoy the political and religious discussions on this
> list (I better, seein's how I'm one of the big offenders).

 Yup.  Hang in there!
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1999\07\26@175644 by Darren Logan

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Well said Andy, a round of applause to you sir.

The man sounds like a Tyrant. I bet his employees just LOVE working for him.
NOT.

1999\07\26@181750 by Scott Dattalo

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On Mon, 26 Jul 1999, Darren Logan wrote:

> Well said Andy, a round of applause to you sir.

Most of the people really disgusted with all of this off topic bull shit
wouldn't bother lifting a finger (except one) to respond to an off topic
message critizing off topic messages. In the last year or so the pic list
attendance has dropped by a hundred or so (I recall sending a message a
while back and getting an acknowledgement that 1684 people received it -
how appropriate.) Most of the reason is due to this childish rubbish with
which some of you have been attempting to waste our time.

1999\07\26@195330 by David Lions

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If any of you guys complain about OT anymore I will be sure to
remind you of the 'Im baaaack' and 'How many PICs to save
JFK' thread.  Double standards, tch, tch, tch...


At 17:38 26/07/99 -0400, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

[SNIP]

{Quote hidden}

David Lions
Lab Technician
Miva Corporation

/*
This correspondence is for the named person's use only. It may contain
confidential or legally privileged information or both. No confidentiality
or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you are not the
intended recipient you must not disclose, copy or rely on any part of this
correspondence. Unless expressly stated the entire contents are the
personal opinion of the writer and not that of the company.
*/

1999\07\26@224623 by A Rudzki

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>The man sounds like a Tyrant. I bet his employees just LOVE working for
him.
>NOT.

While I'm sure his employees don't LOVE to work for him,  I'm sure that
keeping controversy down in the workplace keeps the threat of LAWSUITS down
also.

You don't think talking about SEX on the job will be viewed as sexual
harrassment?

Talking about one RELIGION over another is VIOLATING someones rights?

You may think he's a tyrant, but in the real world those things DO matter,
but the workplace IS NOT the real world.


tony

1999\07\27@061139 by Stefan Sczekalla-Waldschmidt

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A Rudzki wrote:
>
> >The man sounds like a Tyrant. I bet his employees just LOVE working for
> him.
> >NOT.
>
> While I'm sure his employees don't LOVE to work for him,  I'm sure that
> keeping controversy down in the workplace keeps the threat of LAWSUITS down
> also.
>
> You don't think talking about SEX on the job will be viewed as sexual
> harrassment?
>
> Talking about one RELIGION over another is VIOLATING someones rights?
>
> You may think he's a tyrant, but in the real world those things DO matter,
> but the workplace IS NOT the real world.

He may be right. But I often think "hey, why does this 'idiot' feels offended
- can't he/she just ignore the "event" or just laught about it ? "

Sometimes I think it's to easy to state oneself as a member of a minority and
cry for "protection".

Kind regards,

       Stefan

1999\07\27@091308 by ARudzki

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>>He may be right. But I often think "hey, why does this 'idiot' feels
offended
>- can't he/she just ignore the "event" or just laught about it ? "
>
>Sometimes I think it's to easy to state oneself as a member of a minority
and
>cry for "protection".
>
So true.  I am one of the folks that just ignore it and move on.  TV is the
same thing.  Don't like whats on, change the channel, don't censor the thing
(V-chip).

tony

1999\07\27@101023 by Andy Kunz

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>You don't think talking about SEX on the job will be viewed as sexual
>harrassment?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

>Talking about one RELIGION over another is VIOLATING someones rights?

How?  I work for a Unitarian.  He reads the Koran and is always telling me
what wonderful things it has to say.

I show him from the Bible either where Mohammed got the good things (he and
his wife were devout Romanists, remember) or why Mohammed was wrong.

He does not force me to attend his Rainbow Tribe conventions,
save-the-whale conventions, etc, and I don't force him to attend our
revival services.  He allows me to help other employees who are dealing
with problems (they come to me for counseling), etc.

His nor my religious views do not change how we deal with one another at
work.  He's a brilliant man when it comes to RF design.  I do OK when it
comes to designing and implementing software and digital.  We agree to
disagree.

>but the workplace IS NOT the real world.

You can say that again!  Oh wait, I think I said it for you by using the >

Andy
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1999\07\27@101645 by Andy Kunz

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>Sometimes I think it's to easy to state oneself as a member of a minority and
>cry for "protection".

Kind of the exact opposite of someone who TRULY desires equality, no?  I
mean, if you are a minority and wish to be considered equal, it's pretty
stupid to go requiring the Human Resources department to track ethnos,
religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc, right?  If I wanted to be
considered equal, I would demand that those NOT be tracked.

Bringing it back ON topic:

Professionally, I keep track of which processors I'm most familiar with
(PICs, x86, 8051, 6800, etc).  I don't expect an employer to do that,
although in a larger company I would want my manager to believe that I can
handle anything which comes along.

I feel it would be wrong (in a moral sense) to label me as a PIC-only or
PC-only guy.  Why?  Because I've been there.  It took 10 years to get out
of the "database programmer" mold.  I had to quit my job, be self-employed
for 5 years, and then come back.  Not due to lack of skill, but to break
the stereotype.

So, for all you budding engineers out there, don't let yourself fall into a
mold.  And don't put others in them either.

Andy

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1999\07\27@111308 by Rich Graziano

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[OT] The idea that talking about any religion, or anything else, relative to
other ideas as infringing on someone else'e rights is nonsense.  When there
is no longer room for the free exchange of ideas in a society which
professes to uphold freedom of speech and diversity of opinion, then, you no
longer have any freedom of speech and you no longer have FREEDOM
{Original Message removed}

1999\07\27@130238 by David Duley

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On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:44:48 -0400, you wrote:

>While I'm sure his employees don't LOVE to work for him,  I'm sure that
>keeping controversy down in the workplace keeps the threat of LAWSUITS down
>also.
>
>You don't think talking about SEX on the job will be viewed as sexual
>harrassment?
>
>Talking about one RELIGION over another is VIOLATING someones rights?
>
>You may think he's a tyrant, but in the real world those things DO matter,
>but the workplace IS NOT the real world.
>
>
>tony


This reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw a few years ago.  It said
"NUKE GAY WHALES FOR CHRIST"

Best regards
Dave

1999\07\27@131435 by eplus1

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NUKE THE UNBORN GAY WHALES FOR JESUS IN SERBIA

Oh! I didn't say that... Where did that come from?


James Newton, webmaster http://get.to/techref
RemoveMEjamesnewtonTakeThisOuTspamgeocities.com <spamBeGonejamesnewtonspamBeGonespamgeocities.com>
1-619-652-0593 phone

<BLOCKQUOTE AUTHOR="David Duley">
This reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw a few years ago.  It said
"NUKE GAY WHALES FOR CHRIST"
</BLOCKQUOTE>
Best regards
Dave

1999\07\27@132651 by paulb

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ARudzki wrote:

> TV is the same thing.  Don't like whats on, change the channel, don't
> censor the thing (V-chip).

 My sympathies approach Andy's.  Forget changing channel, use the
"sanity selector" button.  Often coded:
  |
 /|\
| | |
 \_/
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1999\07\27@135123 by ARudzki

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>[OT] The idea that talking about any religion, or anything else, relative
to
>other ideas as infringing on someone else'e rights is nonsense.  When there
>is no longer room for the free exchange of ideas in a society which
>professes to uphold freedom of speech and diversity of opinion, then, you
no
>longer have any freedom of speech and you no longer have FREEDOM


We aren't talking about freedom.  We are talking about the closed
environment of the workplace.  You have a right to free speech, but in the
workplace free speech can lead to trouble.


tony

1999\07\27@140329 by Nick Taylor

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U.S. News & World Report, August 2, 1999 issue has a piece by John
Leo that is very "on topic" for this [OT] discussion.

- Nick -

p.s.   Right on, Andy!!!

1999\07\27@144328 by Andy Kunz

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At 11:02 AM 7/27/99 -0700, you wrote:
>U.S. News & World Report, August 2, 1999 issue has a piece by John
>Leo that is very "on topic" for this [OT] discussion.

Is the August 2 issue out already?

Andy

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1999\07\27@155353 by Nick Taylor

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Andy Kunz wrote:
>
> At 11:02 AM 7/27/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >U.S. News & World Report, August 2, 1999 issue has a piece by John
> >Leo that is very "on topic" for this [OT] discussion.
>
> Is the August 2 issue out already?
>
> Andy

Of course!!!  I suppose you think it's still July.
- Nick -

1999\07\28@031604 by g.daniel.invent.design

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Scott makes the assumption that PIC's (& Microchip's) popularity have
not been affected by time and competition:

Scott Dattalo wrote:
<<cut>> In the last year or so the pic list
> attendance has dropped by a hundred or so (I recall sending a message a
> while back and getting an acknowledgement that 1684 people received it -
> how appropriate.) Most of the reason is due to this childish rubbish with
> which some of you have been attempting to waste our time.

Perhaps the list is actually popular *because* of the OT threads and
would otherwise have dwindled further.  Many subscribers are competant
programmers and achieve their goals easily without expert assistance
such as Scott has offered.

Tolerance for other's viewpoints is common in most long term piclist
subscribers

regards,
Graham Daniel.

1999\07\28@035158 by Tim Hamel

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I would have to agree with you Graham. I guess if we stuck a bunch of people
in a room and said they have to talk about one specific thing, they WILL
eventually start talking about other stuff. Humans are the great debaters!
It's inevitable that we'll argue -- either about which is better, PIC or
Scenix -- or religion, politics, etc. And there's LOTS to be learned from OT
posts.


I'm sure my opinion won't add much to this topic (boy, low self-esteem huh!?)
but it's worth a try.

Tim Hamel

In a message dated 7/28/99 12:23:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
g.daniel.invent.designEraseMEspam.....XTRA.CO.NZ writes:

{Quote hidden}

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