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'breathing[OT]'
1998\01\24@093654 by Christoph Klein

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Maybe a little ot ...
I'm trying to measure the expansion of chest during
breathing using a pic (there You are ;-) )
How would You measure a span of about 10cm ?
Usually flexible rubber tubes with quick silver are used,
the change of lenght is measured by taking the resistance
with a wheatstone bridge. only, Hg on the floor can be hard
to hunt ;-) (and sooner or later it gets there ...)

The device should be rather small and to be attached
to a person easily. And it should be as "electronical"
as can be, that is: preferably no mechanical parts ...

Any ideas?

Christoph

1998\01\24@110034 by Rob Zitka

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Of course it may be hard to get a hold of, but ECG elctrodes are the best
for this sort of thing.  And a low current, high frequency source to pass
through the leads.  Changes in resistance of less than an ohm indicate
expansion and contraction.

Rob

At 01:39 PM 1/24/98 +0100, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1998\01\24@124004 by Mcorio

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A very nice technology for this is called the Rubbery Ruler from Unimelb
Limited (U. of Melbourne, AU).  Try:

http://www.ph.unimelb.edu.au/inventions/rubberyruler/

The technology is a capacitive sensor (C changes with stretching of a device)
and is claimed to have been used to monitor body movement is space, fruit
growth and others.  We tried to arrange a license to manufacture and sell the
sensors, but Unimelb's extreme unreasonable expectations forced us to abandon
that project (funny.....patents are MANY years old and no commercial
products????).  I still think the technology offers promise for many niche
applications and maybe some mainstream ones.  It may work for you.  We did
much research into manufacturing processes and applications for this
technology. If you have any questions, let me know. Good-Luck.

Mark A. Corio
Rochester MicroSystems, Inc.
200 Buell Road, Suite 9
Rochester, NY  14624
Tel: 716-328-5850
Fax: 716-328-1144
http://www.frontiernet.net/~rmi/
***** Designing Electronics for Research and Industry *****

1998\01\25@144751 by Engineering Department

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<Christoph writes in part>
> >Maybe a little ot ...
> >I'm trying to measure the expansion of chest during
> >breathing using a pic (there You are ;-) )
> >How would You measure a span of about 10cm ?


I seem to recall that fibre optics attenuate light
in proportion to the radius through which the
fibre is bent.  Perhaps winding a fibre around
an elastic tube -- gum rubber surgical tubing
comes to mind -- would make a sensor that
when wrapped around the subject's chest would
be able to measure movement as a change
in transmissitivity.

Of course it might be a bit simpler to just
measure the change in pressure within the
tubing.  Put the tubing around the subject's
chest.  Pressurize the tubing slightly to
get a reading on a gauge and then watch it
fluctuate.

Just ideas...

Cheers,

Win Wiencke
Image Logic Corporation
spam_OUTImageLogicTakeThisOuTspamibm.net

1998\01\25@234748 by tjaart

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Christoph Klein wrote:
>
> Maybe a little ot ...
> I'm trying to measure the expansion of chest during
> breathing using a pic (there You are ;-) )
> How would You measure a span of about 10cm ?
> Usually flexible rubber tubes with quick silver are used,
> the change of lenght is measured by taking the resistance
> with a wheatstone bridge. only, Hg on the floor can be hard
> to hunt ;-) (and sooner or later it gets there ...)
>
> The device should be rather small and to be attached
> to a person easily. And it should be as "electronical"
> as can be, that is: preferably no mechanical parts ...
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Christoph

I've seen a system where a laser draws a grid on the patient's
chest. The rest is then done in software hooked to a CCD.

--
Friendly Regards

Tjaart van der Walt
.....tjaartKILLspamspam@spam@wasp.co.za
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1998\01\26@041650 by kdowsett

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Christoph Klein wrote:
>
> Maybe a little ot ...
> I'm trying to measure the expansion of chest during
> breathing using a pic (there You are ;-) )
> How would You measure a span of about 10cm ?
> Usually flexible rubber tubes with quick silver are used,
> the change of lenght is measured by taking the resistance
> with a wheatstone bridge. only, Hg on the floor can be hard
> to hunt ;-) (and sooner or later it gets there ...)
>
> The device should be rather small and to be attached
> to a person easily. And it should be as "electronical"
> as can be, that is: preferably no mechanical parts ...
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Christoph

Hi,

  I've read quite a few of the suggestions, so here's mine. Why not use
a straightforward measuring tape marked with 0.5mm wide lines, and an
optical sensor?

The best way I know of to maintain tension on the tape is a 'tensator
spring'. This is a pair of rollers with a coiled steel spring wrapped
around them. Unfortunately I don't know where to get them from since
I've changed jobs.

By making the tape a little too long and anchoring it on the measuring
device it should be straightforward to apply and remove.

If this sounds like a sensible solution, mail me and I'll try and send a
sketch.

Keith.

1998\01\26@143749 by Craig Webb

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Thought Technology makes a very accurate one, which uses a hall effect
sensor moving towards and away form a permanent magnet. It works very well.

http://www.thoughttechnology.com/
514-489-8251

C. Webb

{Quote hidden}

1998\01\27@070613 by Peter Neubert

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Get hold of an elastic fiber optic cable (if it has been invented) meassure
the time it
takes to send a pulse and Voila you got the distance :-)


regards

Peter

1998\01\27@075812 by peter

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Peter Neubert wrote:
>
> Get hold of an elastic fiber optic cable (if it has been invented) meassure
> the time it
> takes to send a pulse and Voila you got the distance :-)

Well I suppose if you wrapped it round a couple of million times
and used an SX from Scenix

I was thinking of sugesting timing ultrsonic pulse along the tube.
As you only require the change not absolute distance you probably
would not need to bother with compensating for temp and pressure
but the guy was looking for a simple solution

peterspamKILLspamcousens.her.forthnet.gr

1998\01\27@083209 by Leon Heller

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In message <01bd2a4e$1a38aee0$66010128@baby>, Peter Neubert
<.....neubertKILLspamspam.....BOW.INTNET.MU> writes
>Get hold of an elastic fiber optic cable (if it has been invented) meassure
>the time it
>takes to send a pulse and Voila you got the distance :-)

The VPL DataGlove (used in virtual reality applications) used fibre-
optic cable to measure finger flexion, with an IR source at one end and
a sensor at the other end. They made small cuts in the fibre-optic
cable, so that the IR transmission varied as the finger was flexed.
Rather crude, but it worked reasonably well.

Leon
--
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Amateur Radio Callsign G1HSM    Tel: +44 (0) 118 947 1424
See http://www.lfheller.demon.co.uk/dds.htm for details of my AD9850
DDS system. See " "/diy_dsp.htm for a simple DIY DSP ADSP-2104 system.

1998\01\27@180046 by TONY NIXON 54964

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The simplest thing I can think of is a String Pot. You can wrap the
string around the chest, and the resistance of the pot will vary with
the expansion. A 16C71 can read the result and display in digital.

Regards

Tony

For the beginner....
PicNPoke Multimedia 16F84 Simulator Assembler, and Tutorial.
Now with PicNPlay circuit simulator.
Plus animated Address Mode Tutor.

http://www.dontronics.com/picnpoke.html

1998\01\28@070749 by paulb

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Tjaart van der Walt wrote:

> I've seen a system where a laser draws a grid on the patient's
> chest. The rest is then done in software hooked to a CCD.

 Yeah.  Nifty system.  One use for it was to measure the amount of milk
taken by a baby during a feed - without touching the baby of course!  It
was reckoned to be an improvement on the earlier technique which of
course involved a tub of water and hanging them in there to see how much
overflowed.

 That was an area of research I thought would be quite fun.  Sure beats
what I ONCE did...

 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1998\01\28@203737 by Rajnish

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Hi,

An adapted LVDT might give a cheaper alternative and construction ease.

Rajnish,
New Delhi,
India.

1998\01\29@143734 by wft

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You might consider a pressure sensor or strain gauge measuring the pull
of a spring.

Gus
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