the programming language is a problem for me. As a mechanical engineer I was taught parametrics on the various CNC machines I've worked on over the years. I not sure which language will suite me. I have included a sample of the parametric pgm for all to c. I know assemble is easy 9so they say), but I'm still in the dark about what's needed for the pic. I have the student version of Flowcode that has enabled me to flash on a few led's sofar, but that got boring soon after I connected the power supple. I'm now trying to get a few relays working using a pic16f628 thru a uln2803.
I have done a basic electronic course (mid 80's) and I have bought & assembled my usb/serial pic programmer (kitsrus.com). had to much trouble with win98se & serial / parallel ports / NOPPP programmer. I always believe it's best to have the right tools / equipment to do the job, cut down the frustration......increase the satisfaction)
Correct "practise makes perfect" so I'm looking for simple projects to play with like led's / keypads / 7 segment leds displays etc. I have assembled various kits in the past, the latest was a lcd volt meter kit for my home made power supply, that works but is far to sensitive & impossible to calibrate. One learns for one's mistakes?
Unfortunately I have far to many projects in mind, most of them for home automation, and no experience to do them. :-((
thanks to all who have sent a reply
Jake I'll have a look at the sites u have mentioned
On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 12:39:44PM +0200, Dave Smith wrote:
> the programming language is a problem for me. As a mechanical engineer I
> was taught parametrics on the various CNC machines I've worked on over the
> years. I not sure which language will suite me. I have included a sample of
> the parametric pgm for all to c. I know assemble is easy 9so they say), but
> I'm still in the dark about what's needed for the pic. I have the student
> version of Flowcode that has enabled me to flash on a few led's sofar, but
> that got boring soon after I connected the power supple. I'm now trying to
> get a few relays working using a pic16f628 thru a uln2803.
You should have little problems. It's clear from your code that you know how
to program. So it's simply a matter of mapping those skills onto the PIC
framework.
It is my firm belief, as I stated in my initial post to this thread, that
learning PIC assembly is virtually an absolute requirement for the novice.
The reason is that it's the language most PIC developers use to communicate
to each other.
BTW I'm well aware of the other offerings: C, JAL, XCSB, PicBasic, and the
like. I've even written my own language/compiler/byteinterpreter system that
I hope to get out into the public eye as soon as I can get time to support it.
It's called NPCI and you can find an overview here:
But in the end PIC assembly is the lingua franca of PIC languages. Learn it
and you'll always be able to communicate PIC ideas even when you use another
language. It has the largest development base.
>
> I have done a basic electronic course (mid 80's) and I have bought &
> assembled my usb/serial pic programmer (kitsrus.com). had to much trouble
> with win98se & serial / parallel ports / NOPPP programmer. I always believe
> it's best to have the right tools / equipment to do the job, cut down the
> frustration......increase the satisfaction)
Agreed. It's one reason why I think that bootloaders are really cool. I
support the Trivial PIC Programmer, both low voltage and high voltage versions.
Their real purpose is to serve as a simple, cheap, easy to build programming
platform to dump bootloaders into empty chips.
>
> Correct "practise makes perfect" so I'm looking for simple projects to play
> with like led's / keypads / 7 segment leds displays etc. I have assembled
> various kits in the past, the latest was a lcd volt meter kit for my home
> made power supply, that works but is far to sensitive & impossible to
> calibrate. One learns for one's mistakes?
> Unfortunately I have far to many projects in mind, most of them for home
>automation, and no experience to do them. :-((
Well let's start there. Home automation is my biggest target too. I currently
have 3 active PIC projects working in my home:
1) The simplest is my basement light controller. It detects the basement door
opening and turns on the basement lights via a relay.. It turns off the
lights 2 minutes or so after the door closes. Built with a 16F84 several
years ago. Works like a champ.
2) Outdoor sunrise/sunset controller. Similar principal but tracks time and
has a table estimating sunrise and sunset times during the year. Invaluable
for automatic lighting of the exterior of the house. You can find the code
on my main PIC page: http://www.finitesite.com/d3jsys#PROJECTS.
3) Thermostat. My tradition thermostat died. So I built a PIC based one that
reads a DS1620 digital thermometer and uses 12V auto relays to control the
heat/AC/fan for the central heat/air system. It displays the temp on an LED
display. Code is also at the above site.
So think about a project you'd like to work on. That's where to get started.
BAJ
-- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads
well that's what I thought when I first saw assembly language, I still trying to find my feet, my guess is I need to practise, practise, then some more.
ok yr sunrise/sunset project looks handy. this may help with the solar panel heaters for my pool. If it can sense the temperature dropping it can then close the valves to the solar panels thus preventing the panels acting in reverse and cooling the pool like when the wind starts to blow during the day time. can it log all the data?
On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 06:42:57PM +0200, Dave Smith wrote:
> Byron
>
> well that's what I thought when I first saw assembly language, I still
> trying to find my feet, my guess is I need to practise, practise, then some
> more.
Take it in small steps. Look at other's code. It's one of the reasons why I
try to heavily document my code.
> ok yr sunrise/sunset project looks handy. this may help with the solar
> panel heaters for my pool. If it can sense the temperature dropping it can
> then close the valves to the solar panels thus preventing the panels acting
> in reverse and cooling the pool like when the wind starts to blow during the
> day time. can it log all the data?
>
> Is yr project available in kit form?
Nope. That's the nature of hobby work. You build a one off for yourself. Maybe
to help others, you post the code, and if you really have time draw a
schematic. I still do my permanent development using wire wrap. So no PCB has
been done for the project.
PCB making is on my list of things to do. But in all honesty I would really
like to be really (I mean really really!!!) lazy about it. We've had some
recent PCB discussions lately, but I don't think I've ever seen the total
PCB making/populating package put together. Here's a brief description of
Nirvana for me:
1) Think up a idea of board in the morning.
2) Use schematic capture to draw the circuit and have it autorouted onto a PCB.
3) Print to a transparancy, expose to positive photo PCB, expose to UV, develop
rinse, and etch (ammonium perchlorate is the clear stuff right?)
4) Ideally mount SMT components and bake and be ready to go by early afternoon.
A pipe dream? I don't know. But certainly something to strive for.
But in the end all of my stuff is one off's, except for the design for the
Trivial Programmers.
Sorry I can't be of more help.
BAJ
-- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads
>Correct "practise makes perfect" so I'm looking for simple projects to play with like led's / keypads / 7 segment leds displays etc. I have assembled various kits in the past, the latest was a lcd volt meter kit for my home made power supply, that works but is far to sensitive & impossible to calibrate. One learns for one's mistakes?
>
>
>
Hi Dave,
I have some beginners project material if you like.
It starts of explaining PIC assembler, then moves on the using MPLAB and
introduces code stating at the famous flashing LED, then walks you
through 7 segment LEDs, multiplexing them, driving relays, using lookup
tables in the PIC, storing data in the internal EEPROM, using external
I2C EEPROM, LCD displays, switches, keypads, etc.
The program explanations all have source code.
Both project (PDF) books take up about 900K if you want me to email them.
regards
Tony
-- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads
>PCB making is on my list of things to do. But in all honesty I would really
>like to be really (I mean really really!!!) lazy about it. We've had some
>recent PCB discussions lately, but I don't think I've ever seen the total
>PCB making/populating package put together. Here's a brief description of
>Nirvana for me:
>
>1) Think up a idea of board in the morning.
>2) Use schematic capture to draw the circuit and have it autorouted onto a
>PCB.
>3) Print to a transparancy, expose to positive photo PCB, expose to UV,
>develop
> rinse, and etch (ammonium perchlorate is the clear stuff right?)
>4) Ideally mount SMT components and bake and be ready to go by early
>afternoon.
We've been at the above stage for close to 20 years now. The timelines are
a bit different (I used to be a real night-hawk) so the process used to go
something like:
I work late - finish board layout (no fancy autorouting, single layer if at
all possible). Leave note with filename on partner's desk. He copies file
onto CD and runs down the street to the local print house. In the
meantime, one of the shop guys cuts and cleans raw PCB blanks and laminates
Riston film onto them. Negative comes back - burn boards, clean, drill,
stuff. I'd have boards in my hands ready for test by about noon.
There's been a lot of changes in that list over the years - artwork used to
come from a HP7475 plotter, then came from a laser printer with Cary
Ravitz's absolutely wonderful "PrintGL" HPGL to printer software. Then the
print house got one of those neat direct file to film printers and we never
looked back.
Drilling used to be all done by hand - there was a running contest to see
how many holes one could drill before breaking a drill bit. Best was about
10,000 holes per drill bit (we used to make a LOT of boards by hand in the
old days). The old Dremel-type drill (made by Metal Removal Corp) still
works but it was replaced with a funky little drilling machine made by
Gordon Robineau - this could read the drill file direct from the CAD package.
Now we use a converted key-tag engraving machine to mill boards. One of
the shop guys repairs these in his spare time and came across a machine
who's controller was not salvageable. He spent months getting it to work
but we don't make very many proto boards with the photo etch process any
more. Similar timeline to before - I give him filename in the morning,
board ready for test in my hands in the early afternoon. Resolution is
nowhere near as good as the photo process and it takes about the same
amount of time in hours to get a board - but the machine does most of the
work by itself.
Celebrating 20 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2004)
.-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-
`-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-'
Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address.
This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited
commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email.
-- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads
>I have some beginners project material if you like.
>
>It starts of explaining PIC assembler, then moves on the using MPLAB and
>introduces code stating at the famous flashing LED, then walks you
>through 7 segment LEDs, multiplexing them, driving relays, using lookup
>tables in the PIC, storing data in the internal EEPROM, using external
>I2C EEPROM, LCD displays, switches, keypads, etc.
>
>The program explanations all have source code.
>
>Both project (PDF) books take up about 900K if you want me to email them.
Hi there, Tony. Would you consider allowing James to host those files on
piclist.com? Would you want a fee for downloads?
I really miss visiting your website - always stuff to learn there.
Celebrating 20 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2004)
.-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-
`-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-'
Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address.
This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited
commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email.
-- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads
> PCB making is on my list of things to do. But in all honesty I would
really
> like to be really (I mean really really!!!) lazy about it. We've had some
> recent PCB discussions lately, but I don't think I've ever seen the total
> PCB making/populating package put together. Here's a brief description of
> Nirvana for me:
>
> 1) Think up a idea of board in the morning.
> 2) Use schematic capture to draw the circuit and have it autorouted onto
a PCB.
> 3) Print to a transparancy, expose to positive photo PCB, expose to UV,
develop
> rinse, and etch (ammonium perchlorate is the clear stuff right?)
> 4) Ideally mount SMT components and bake and be ready to go by early
afternoon.
>
It's close to that for me.
Come up with an idea (I'm not a morning person though :o)
Draw the schematic in Eagle
Route the board, single sided if at all possible (I've not been successful
with autorouters, and it always seems that I need to make a library part or
two...)
Print it onto glossy inkjet paper with my HP5m laser printer.
Clean a board and transfer with a laminator. (some people claim to be able
to do it with a household iron, my results got a LOT more consistent with a
laminator)
Etch in Copper Chloride / remove toner with acetone.
Drill ($39 dollar harbor freight drill pres spays for itself with fewer
broken bits)
Populate- Last one I built took about three hours from printing to blinky
lights. Of course then I spent three days tweaking the PIC software :o)
I haven't tried persulfate etchants, but it'll be a cold day in h*ll before
I go back to ferric chloride. Copper Chloride is clear enough to see the
board, dirt cheap, and completely renewable - you never throw it away. I
could go on for hours...
-Denny
-- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads
>
> Hi there, Tony. Would you consider allowing James to host those files on
> piclist.com? Would you want a fee for downloads?
>
> I really miss visiting your website - always stuff to learn there.
>
> dwayne
Sure thing, if he wants to.
No fee needed, although I got my Flight Instructor rating the other day,
which means I will be permanantly broke, so who knows :-)) I also had my
first student. Don't know who was the most nervous.
Me too, but no time anymore. Just hanging on with the PIClist.
regards
Tony
-- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads
Hi Denny,
interesting method, I almost use the same.
> Clean a board and transfer with a laminator. (some people claim to be able
> to do it with a household iron, my results got a LOT more consistent with
> a laminator)
>
I do use an ordinary iron (it's quite lucky if it works the first time, but it eventually does), but I've never heard of using a laminator. Could you (bearing in mind I'm francophone and I've never heard 'laminator' before, and the probable french equivalent doesn't ring a bell) explain how you do it? And with glossy paper (which I believe doesn't leave that annoying paper-hair between near tracks) what's the smallest, i.e. narrow pitch ICs, tracks between IC pads, etc. stuff you can do?
csb
-- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads
> No fee needed, although I got my Flight Instructor rating the other day,
> which means I will be permanantly broke, so who knows :-)) I also had my
> first student. Don't know who was the most nervous.
----- Original Message ----- From: Dwayne Reid To: PICLISTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: hobbist / novice ********thanks for all the reply's **********
At 04:58 PM 7/20/2004, Tony Nixon wrote:
>I have some beginners project material if you like.
>
>It starts of explaining PIC assembler, then moves on the using MPLAB and
>introduces code stating at the famous flashing LED, then walks you
>through 7 segment LEDs, multiplexing them, driving relays, using lookup
>tables in the PIC, storing data in the internal EEPROM, using external
>I2C EEPROM, LCD displays, switches, keypads, etc.
>
>The program explanations all have source code.
>
>Both project (PDF) books take up about 900K if you want me to email them.
----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Nixon To: EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: hobbist / novice ********thanks for all the reply's **********
Dave Smith wrote:
>Thanks Tony
>
>Please do email the pdf's to me
>
>regards
>
>
>
Hi Dave,
>-----Original Message-----
>From: pic microcontroller discussion list
>[PICLISTspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU] On Behalf Of CSB
>Sent: 21 July 2004 03:54
>To: @spam@PICLISTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: hobbist / novice ********thanks for all the
>reply's **********
>
>
>Hi Denny,
>interesting method, I almost use the same.
>
>> Clean a board and transfer with a laminator. (some people
>claim to be
>> able to do it with a household iron, my results got a LOT more
>> consistent with a laminator)
>>
>I do use an ordinary iron (it's quite lucky if it works the
>first time, but it eventually does), but I've never heard of
>using a laminator. Could you (bearing in mind I'm francophone
>and I've never heard 'laminator' before, and the probable
>french equivalent doesn't ring a bell) explain how you do it?
>And with glossy paper (which I believe doesn't leave that
>annoying paper-hair between near tracks) what's the smallest,
>i.e. narrow pitch ICs, tracks between IC pads, etc. stuff you can do?
A "laminator" is used to cover paper or card with a tough plastic to make it
stiffer and waterproof. The laminator is basicaly a set of motor driven
heated rollers, and the plastic comes in the form of an "envelope" treated
with heat sensitive glue on the inside.
You can get very cheap home models from e.g. Staples
Regards
Mike
=======================================================================
This e-mail is intended for the person it is addressed to only. The
information contained in it may be confidential and/or protected by
law. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you must
not make any use of this information, or copy or show it to any
person. Please contact us immediately to tell us that you have
received this e-mail, and return the original to us. Any use,
forwarding, printing or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.
No part of this message can be considered a request for goods or
services.
=======================================================================
>No fee needed, although I got my Flight Instructor rating the
>other day, which means I will be permanantly broke, so who
>knows :-)) I also had my first student. Don't know who was the
>most nervous.
>
>Me too, but no time anymore. Just hanging on with the PIClist.
Oh, I don't know, it will be remote controlled planes next, instead of cars,
won't it :))))
planet.eon.net>
