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'inteligent house - network...'
1997\11\23@100747 by oz2afo

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Hi

I'm planing to make my house inteligent (If that's possible). And was
thinking about making somekind of network of pic's all around the house.
It's on the 'in-my-head' stage right now, and i wanted to hear your
opinions about the network type to use.
I was planning to use somekind of curentloop thing, with optocouplers at
each node. It has to work bidirectional, and was thinking about using
somekind of a 'busmaster' scheme, that is there is only one 'master' that
could send/recieve from everyone (like the I2C bus).
To keep the circuits small, i was planing to power them directly of the
mains suply, (with rectifiers, voltage dividers and zenerdiodes to get an
acceptable vcc).

Another thing, is there anyone that has any ideas as to how to make a
'digital' light dimmer, with a pic? This could be nice for the above
project....

Any comments are welcomed....

- Thomas

1997\11\23@110218 by Ray Gardiner

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{Quote hidden}

Hi Thomas,

Take a look at CEBus. There are plenty of docs on the web and
a few books around. The book I am currently reading is:-

       The CEBus Standard User's Guide by Grayson Evans




Ray Gardiner  Technical Director DSP Systems   spam_OUTrayTakeThisOuTspamdsp-systems.com
private email to:- .....rayKILLspamspam@spam@netspace.net.au  http://www.dsp-systems.com

1997\11\24@073020 by ruben

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Hello Thomas.

Why not use the mains supply wires for the network with a powerline
modem circuit. Then you could just add a node by plugging it in a
wall socket.

I have been thinking about this also, but I have never come around to
do anyting with it. Here are a few moudules I was thinking about:

Central unit which controls all nodes in the network. This should be
able to understand a simple high level programming language like:

 node 1001:0,"Freezer",temp
 node 1002:0,"Lamp_10",switch
 node 1002:1,"Lamp_11",switch
 node 1002:2,"Lamp_12",switch
 node 1003:0,"Alarm",switch

 If (time>8:00 and time<10:00 and day!=saturday and day!=sunday)
    switch("Lamp_12",on)
 endif

 if (temprature("Freezer")>-15)
    switch("Alarm",on)
    print("Frezer temperature to high: %temperature("Freezer")%")
 endif

 ... And so on.

ON/OFF triac switches.

Dimmer switches.

Temperature sensors.

Light sensors.

Keypad and LCD node for manual input.

Remote control receiver.

Well, this is just some of my thoughts.

{Quote hidden}

------------------------------------
Ruben Jšnsson
AB Liros Elektronik
Box 9124
200 39 Malmš, Sweden
Tel:  +46 40 14 20 78
Mail: .....rubenKILLspamspam.....sbbs.se
------------------------------------

1997\11\24@141141 by Tom Dee

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Circuit Cellar Ink  magazine has had  system for quite a while using
a RS485 network and they sell smart 485-based modules for a reasonable
price.

If you can get back copies they describe their system and network
protocol in some detail.

see http://www.circellar.com

Tom...

1997\11\24@162942 by Alessandro Zummo

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Il 24-Nov-97, Ruben Jšnsson scrisse:


>Why not use the mains supply wires for the network with a powerline
>modem circuit. Then you could just add a node by plugging it in a
>wall socket.

I'm also interested, but how can i drive the powerline?? Where
can i get some schematics??

--

  - *Alex* -

     (EraseMEazummospam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTita.flashnet.it)

1997\11\25@062241 by oz2afo

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I have also had this in mind, and it would be much easier, compared to
installing seperate cables for the communication. My house is divided in to
3 groups, with a seperate fuse for every group... So i have to make some
'bridge' thing between them, or have 3 modems on the mastercontroler.
Anyway, i havent got any clues at how to make a powerline modem... So, if
anyone has any ideas, then i'm all ears :)

- Thomas

----------
Fra: Ruben Jvnsson <rubenspamspam_OUTSBBS.SE>
Til: @spam@PICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Emne: Re: inteligent house - network...
Dato: 24. november 1997 14:16

Hello Thomas.

Why not use the mains supply wires for the network with a powerline
modem circuit. Then you could just add a node by plugging it in a
wall socket.

1997\11\25@170714 by Ernesto Tolocka

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Hi Ruben

>> Another thing, is there anyone that has any ideas as to how to make a
>> 'digital' light dimmer, with a pic? This could be nice for the above
>> project....

I have an idea, like a angle-control system with a triac: generate an
interrupt synchronously with the AC supply. In every interrupt, start a
variable delay timer,
according to the 'light level'. At the end of the delay, turn the triac ON..

Ernesto Tolocka
Salsipuedes, Argentina.

1997\11\25@173348 by D. Meid

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part 0 1283 bytes content-type:text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" (decoded 7bit)

> Hi Ruben
>
> >> Another thing, is there anyone that has any ideas as to how to make
> a
> >> 'digital' light dimmer, with a pic? This could be nice for the
> above
> >> project....
>
> I have an idea, like a angle-control system with a triac: generate an
> interrupt synchronously with the AC supply. In every interrupt, start
> a
> variable delay timer,
> according to the 'light level'. At the end of the delay, turn the
> triac ON..
>
> Ernesto Tolocka
> Salsipuedes, Argentina.

I'm working myself on a digital lighting dimmer with a PIC 16C77jw for
about half a year. Till february '98 it has to be finished (it's a
research-project). If anyone wants to get further information please
drop me a email KILLspamdorian.meidKILLspamspamstud.uni-erlangen.de

don't use the hole list, when you don't think your message is of
interest to everybody.
e.g. lawnmower, sheep, test ...

Dorian
Erlangen, Bavaria, Germany

Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for D. Meid
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Attachment converted: wonderland:vcard.vcf (TEXT/CSOm) (0000C396)

1997\11\25@182324 by oz2afo

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----------
> Fra: D. Meid <RemoveMEDorian.MeidTakeThisOuTspamSTUD.UNI-ERLANGEN.DE>
> Til: spamBeGonePICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Emne: Re: inteligent house - network...
> Dato: 25. november 1997 23:20
>
> don't use the hole list, when you don't think your message is of
> interest to everybody.
> e.g. lawnmower, sheep, test ...

Why not? I get a good laugh, with some of the more ingenious ideas..
(Lasers to mow the lawn f.ex.)...

- Thomas

1997\11\25@190705 by Andrew Mayo

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There was a very good article on PIC Triac control in an English
magazine - Electronics Today International, by a guy called Bart Trepak.
He's probably reachable through the net.

The only mystery to me is designing the choke required to suppress
interference - I don't know a formula for doing that.

{Quote hidden}

1997\11\26@124212 by Gaston Gagnon

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Alessandro Zummo wrote:

> >Why not use the mains supply wires for the network with a powerline
> >modem circuit. Then you could just add a node by plugging it in a
> >wall socket.
>
> I'm also interested, but how can i drive the powerline?? Where
> can i get some schematics??
> --

If you are interested in X-10 system which allows you to use the power
wiring of your house to communicate between devices, you may look at
Micromint's page. They offer a chip called PLIX which provides the
communication interface between a computer and X-10 AC power-line. The
TW523 module provides the hardware interface.

http://www.micromint.com

Gaston Gagnon
gagnongEraseMEspam.....total.net

1997\11\26@144525 by W.E. van Bemmel

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Thomas,

If wheater allows I will use my lawnmower to chop the goat and ignite
the barbecue by GPS controlled LASER.

More seriously however, to stay [on topic],

What is the virtue of slew rate limited RS485 devices like Maxim's 487
compared
to non-limited ones like MAX485, of which I have some samples?
I can think of RFI, spikes, reflections...

Who knows?

Regards, Wim van Bemmel

Thomas M¿rch wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1997\11\26@155253 by Dennis Merrill

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At 12:36 PM 11/26/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Alessandro Zummo wrote:
>
>> >Why not use the mains supply wires for the network with a powerline
>> >modem circuit. Then you could just add a node by plugging it in a
>> >wall socket.
>>
>> I'm also interested, but how can i drive the powerline?? Where
>> can i get some schematics??
>> --
>
>If you are interested in X-10 system which allows you to use the power
>wiring of your house to communicate between devices, you may look at
>Micromint's page. They offer a chip called PLIX which provides the
>communication interface between a computer and X-10 AC power-line. The
>TW523 module provides the hardware interface.
>
>http://www.micromint.com
>

Also, if anyone is interested in building one of these "powerline"
transceivers, national semi has an ap note on their web page about how to
build a stereo FM transmitter that works over power lines.  For digital
data, one could turn it into an FSK system pretty easily.

1997\11\26@213432 by Andre Lategan

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There has been some discussion about sending data via a powerline.  National
Semiconductor make the LM1893/LM2893 Carrier-Current Transceiver.  The
datasheet lists the following features:

Noise resistant FSK modulation
User-selected impulse noise filtering
Up to 4.8 kBaud data transmission rate
Strings of 0's or 1's in data allowed
Sinusoidal line drive for low RFI
Output power easily boosted 10-fold
50 to 300 kHz carrier frequency choice
TTL and MOS compatible digital levels
Regulated voltage to power logic
Drives all convential power lines

Sounds pretty good to me.  Maybe someone  has had experience with this IC.   I
would like to use it to transmitt digitised temperature data 250 metres across
a farm.

Andre Lategan

1997\11\27@061227 by Kieran Sullivan

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Limiting slew rate allows the network to be less sensitive to transmission line
faults such as a missing terminator or a long stub.

Kieran


----------
From:   W.E. van Bemmel[SMTP:RemoveMEbemspanspam_OUTspamKILLspamXS4ALL.NL]
Sent:   26 November 1997 19:40
To:     RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject:        Re: Sv: inteligent house - network...

Thomas,

If wheater allows I will use my lawnmower to chop the goat and ignite
the barbecue by GPS controlled LASER.

More seriously however, to stay [on topic],

What is the virtue of slew rate limited RS485 devices like Maxim's 487
compared
to non-limited ones like MAX485, of which I have some samples?
I can think of RFI, spikes, reflections...

Who knows?

Regards, Wim van Bemmel

Thomas Morch wrote:

{Quote hidden}


'inteligent house - network...'
1997\12\03@004252 by Bill Von Novak
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At 01:01 PM 11/27/97 +1000, you wrote:
>There has been some discussion about sending data via a powerline.  National
>Semiconductor make the LM1893/LM2893 Carrier-Current Transceiver. . . .
>
>Sounds pretty good to me.  Maybe someone  has had experience with this IC.
 I
>would like to use it to transmitt digitised temperature data 250 metres
across
>a farm.

       i have some experience using this chip, and it works pretty well.
i used an external driver and was able to get 9600 baud all over a house
(though it's really not spec'd for that.)  some problems:

-my application (multiple channel dimming) generated quite a lot of
conducted EMI.  this has to be carefully filtered if the link is going to
work at high speeds.

-it won't work across multiple legs of a transformer unless you
specifically couple it.  in your standard 220/110V house, that means if you
plug it into an outlet, only about half the other outlets will see the
signal.  putting a .1 600v cap across both hot lines will help with this
problem.

-bill von

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